MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: mrdenn1s on October 13, 2013, 04:58:51 PM
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I'm not sure which way to go.
I'm torn (due to the bloody amazing pricing at present) between a GLXR Triton or a Challenger (Both about $38k drive away after factory cash back, etc)
Both appeal, as for the money, they will be easily be able to do the off roading I want to try with a set of new AT tyres, a bullbar and some upgraded bash plates
I could do with the ute, as I need to collect firewood, but dont want a canopy so I am unhindered from carting whatever I want. However, then I lose my boot space. But I get a 1 tonne pay load v 550kg (I'm guessing)
The Challenger would better off road with no rear overhang like the Triton and a boot, but then I would need to haul a trailer around which is giving me the ****s (I have a double switchback driveway)
(http://i1259.photobucket.com/albums/ii543/iamnotpeterpan/CIMG2891_zps5e9bd0ae.jpg)
So, this is not a thread for a Mitsubishi vs [insert your favourite manufacturer] ****fight.
It is ute v wagon
State your case
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I have both, Hilux for work, Prado for fun and travel, does that help ;D
Even with a canopy we found dust was a big issue in the twin cab, hence going the wagon. Coils over rear leaf and 4 wheel disk brakes were a bonus for us as well.
Cheers Andrew
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Went from a Hilux dual cab with canopy to a Land cruiser wagon as the kids got older - more room in the cab and more comfort but a bit less storage. The worst part was fuel fumes from the chainsaw jerry and/or chainsaw. Otherwise all good. It was got to go 'dust resistant' in the wagon too.
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Went from a triton to the patrol, one has heaps more 4wd ability and cabin space, one had heaps of space in the back under a high back canopy. Would not sell the patrol as I am happier with it. We have learned to pack better and a bit bigger trailer helps as well. Chainsaw fuel is a problem and I have it stored on the rack to keep the smell out of the cabin
GG
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I had a ute as one of my first cars... from day 1 I regretted getting a ute as I instantly had so many friends that were moving house.. and friends of friends asking for help...
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Good topic, I'm currently deciding between a ute & wagon also
Swannie
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Will be reading this with interest, we are also thinking of ute vs wagon.... great topic!
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We had the Xtrail and it worked really well laying all the seats down and fitting the fridge and the rest of the gear in but we wanted to do more and changed to the Triton as now i can carry fuel etc in the rear and not in the cabin our children have grown up and not with us so i gutted the rear of the Triton made a platform for the fridge and seperate stackable containers and all is working for us ,it depends on how you operate and want to do and if you have children.Look on the www.newtriton.net forum youll see all the ute setups on there along with a very good one just posted yesterday called Charlie Challenger Build.
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Just changed from a Subaru Outback to a dual cab DMax. Two very different sized vehicles in the back. DMax wins hands down but then you would expect that.
The Outback had a surprising amount of rear leg room but the DMax also has heaps. Was told by some that the rear seats in a dual cab are not as comfortable as a wagon (eg Prado, Landcruiser etc) but when you have a good look at the dual cab seats there is not much difference in actual seat size, thickness or comfort compared to a wagon. My two teenagers reckon they are comfy. Difference is some wagon's rear seats can recline whereas that isn't possible in a dual cab. But if you put in a cargo barrier in the wagon (and let's face it you really should for safety reasons) it limits the recline in a lot of cases so again equal.
Dust is a problem with a ute and canopy. The canopy is dust free but the tub is designed to let water run out of it and carry things, not be dust proof. It took me a while to work out how to stop it getting in via the tailgate, double skin walls and front of tub but it is now dust free and carries heaps. With side opening windows you can access most things from outside, not always possible with the fixed windows on a wagon.
Anyways, just my two cents worth.
KB
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KB points out the dust problem and there is a dust seal kit available for Tritons not sure about other models and i dont know how well they work.
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We went from a 2002 Hilux ute to a 2011 Challenger wagon.
The main reason was suspension and 4 wheel disk brakes.
When we had two dogs, the ute was great.
If I had dogs again, I would go the ute, now since we don't have dogs, the wagon it is.
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You did mention the difference in payload.
Have a close look at the numbers that relate to the weights - tare, gvm, gcm etc...
Think about any extras that you are king to put on, and what you're going to be doing with it.
Many wagons have significant lower GCM than utes, and when bar work, racks, fridges, fuel and passengers are loaded there is often only weight allocation for light beer & a toothbrush (no toothpaste).
I had several, very capable wagons in my wish list, when I did the numbers on one of them I would have had to leave the Minister for War & Finance at home even for a trip to the shops.
Ended up with a dual cab ute.
Regards
ATC
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Cars and 4WD's are like wives, some do some things that others don't and some say they can anything, but ya find out later it was false advertising.
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Don't know if it's any help but I too had the same decision to make. Agonised over a GLXR Triton or LS Challenger, ended up with a manual Challenger and couldn't be happier.
Drive away @ $41k ,heaps of room and no need to pay extra for a canopy.
Guess it comes down to do you need a ute..
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Anything I can't fit in the back of the Jackaroo with second row seats folded forward I move on a trailer.
Have a twin position luggage barrier with a fridge slide in the back. With a single draw and the dog seat that is about it for the back. Chain saw & fuel, mallee tracks and 4kg gas bottle on the roof rack.
Everything else in the CT.
having started out with a wife and 2 small kids in a beetle, and touring N.W. Tasie with the same cre in a VW Type 3 'variant' (wagon) I recon I now have LOADS loads of space. ;D
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I think it really comes down to intended use!
We decided we needed a dual cab and got a 2011 Hilux SR5. After about a month we realised we had made the wrong choice.
The ute was great when we went away but 90% + use was day to day around town. Issues were as follows:
1. Very long and difficult to park in shopping centres.
2. Uncomfortable back seats.
3. Leaf spring rear end made it ride like a billy kart unladen. Much better with a load.
4. Terrible in the wet.
5. Could not dust proof no matter how much we tried.
We now have a 2013 Prado (and a camper trailer) and could not be happier. Much more comfortable, safer and family friendly.
So as I started with do you really need a ute or wagon to meet your needs?
Good Luck with your purchase.
Sun Boy
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WE had an 09 X-trail which was a good wagon but sold it coz it wasn't really 4wd. We then bought a courier ute which is a dual cab, now we are having a second child and the canopy on the courier and lack of interior space are giving me the craps so I just bought a Prado. I don't know if I'll ever buy a dual cab again, hopeless without a canopy and restricted with one in my experience.
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I think you really have to ask your self , what will you be using it for, I have a d/cab with canopy .Our plan is to tour OZ have a C/T , kayaks ,trail bike, so went for d/cab but have up graded suspention to 400kg constant springs good shocks. I needed the weight capacity ,
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I have a Challenger and I'm fairly happy with it.....
If you want luxury.....buy a Prado..
If you are serious about outback travel, avoid the utes because of dust issues....................
But value for money....the Challenger is hard to beat
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straighten the driveway...
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I must admit that when we bought the Pathfinder I was originally out to buy a dual cab. The problem is that I think, in Nissan anyway, that the dual cabs are over priced. For what was effectively the same price price between a navara with a ute liner and canopy we got in a Pathfinder - 7 seats, heated leather seats with electric memory, keyless entry & start, VSC, more airbags, electronic traction control, split air con and a few other things. Made it a no brainer as a "non-tradie" to go that way and get a boot liner with a 2inch lip so you can through most things in the back if needed.
Ours is off to a new home next weekend in exchange for a Patrol. I toyed with utes by way of a 76 series dual cab but stayed with the wagon. If the cruiser came with remotely anything civilised (coil rear, cruise, ABS, stability control, any safety feature besides a seat belt, child seat restraints, power winders, central locking etc) it may have been a closer a battle despite the 30+% price premium.
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I have both,a navara & a kluger.We have always gone a way in the navara.heaps of room in the back with the canopy on,kyaks on the roof,tows great and not bad on fuel.
But now that the kids are getting older they are complaining about not being comfortable and want to go away in the kluger which is very comfy but has no brake controler or anderson plug and has hopless fuel acconomy.I want to sell it and get a prado but my wife loves it and doesn't want to get rid of it.
So i cant help you sorry cause i have both and i still cant decide which one.
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Got a wagon only because they hadn't brought out the dual cab in the Landcruiser. One month after purchase the dual cab was available >:( I still love my wagon.
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My choice is easy - always a wagon, because all dual cab utes are too small for rear legroom when me (at 2m) is sitting up front.
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I gotta say I love my Hilux dual cab with canopy. If I had my time again, I would get an extra cab with a gull wing tray. Ya gotta remember that the best way to deal with dust is to learn to live with it.
Also, utes are trucks by another name so don't expect a nice soft ride. After I added an extra leaf to the rear spring pack, it is so much nicer to tow with. That says the springs need to be matched to the load you carry.
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Ive had a 2001 GU Patrol, and now i have a 2012 D40 Navara. The Navara wins hands down for me. the capability to tow as much as the patrol but with the ute back awesome. Dust isnt a worry is store all things in the Campertrailer.
The only problem with the Navara is that its about 6 inches longer than a patrol and it makes it harder to park.
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I've been agonising over the same decision for a while now. Currently have a wagon, but I think I'd really like a ute next.
My Pros:
* More space in the rear of the ute.
* dropside tray = space under for water tank, plus less to damage offroad
* no canopy / easily removable canopy = ability to take a load of crap to the dump, buy a new fridge, etc
* turbo diesel = longer range and better fuel economy
My Cons:
* Currently the fridge, etc, all gets nicely locked up in the back of the car - can't do that in a ute
* Having everything open in a ute means it all gets wet. A canvas canopy will help, but there's still the dust to clog fridge compressors, etc
* The wagons are nicer inside, ride better with the coils, more space inside
* See the "another bent dual cab" thread
Earlier this year my old man bought a GLX Triton when they were very cheap. I felt a bit cramped inside it, but I could work with it. I'd prefer something a bit larger inside (Patrol / cruiser / Amarok??). But even as a base-model GLX, the Triton had everything you would want - traction control, bluetooth, cruise, etc.
Honestly, I don't know what I'd do if I had to decide tomorrow. Luckily it'll be a couple of years before we can afford to retire the current one, so I've got some time to make up my mind. I think the 3.2L Ranger currently comes the closest to what I want, but they're still expensive. I spent last weekend eyeing off my dream rig at an adjacent campsite - a cut-down 76 wagon with steel tray. That'd be perfect, but is certainly the expensive option since I would want one of the later 76's with ABS (Hey Toyota - 1970 called, they want their chassis/brakes/tape player back). A cut Patrol or Cruiser would also be nice, but then you're paying a lot of money for an older car.
Who am I kidding - I do know what I'd have tomorrow assuming money was not an option:
(http://www.rwvconversions.com/sites/rwvconversions.com/files/styles/gallery_large/public/image_media/DSC05199.JPG)
Cheers,
Matto :)
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I personally love dual cab utes but always wanted one with live axles and a powerful motor which did not exist. I ended up buying a 76 wagon and then they released the dual cab 6 months after my purchase and I was pissed >:( . Every time I see one I almost shed a tear! :'(
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I have just made this chage from a Prado to a DMax and can share the following
Pros
1. Love the room of the Dmax no more putting bikes on the roof just throw them in the back
2. It is quite comfortable i recon it is almost on par with the prado you do notice the back end a bit more on corregations but day to day it is fine
3. It is tough and seems to be able to take a bit of puneshment
4. You can seperate wet bikes and other dirty things from the cabin we wre trashing the interior of the prado with dirty mountain bikes and the like
Cons
1. Not as sure footed as the prado but the prado was constant 4wd i would not punt the dmax through a corner as hard as would the prado especially in the wet
2. It is longer than the prado and at first i found it wankey but the reverse camera is essential
3. Dust gets in the rear tub i will need to put foam around the tailgate as there are some serious gaps here
3. Security even though you can lock up the fiberglass canopy i still recon you could reef the back window open pretty easily
4. Width while longer it is narrower than the prado and most utes seem to be narrower than their equivlenat wagon brother
5. Interior feels more plasticy than the prado
I would ove if toyota or similar could have the prado chassis and running gear (constast 4wd disks all round etc) and then put a ute body on top that would be great
Now take the above with a grain of salt as i am comparing 2 differnt vehicles, manufacturers and price points
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I've got a GLX Triton after having Jackaroo. It is a very capable 4wd as shown on our recent Border Track trip - through deep bog holes, water, clay, sand dunes etc. It's done the top end, Flinders, Far West Coast, Birdsville track etc,. It has ha rear factory locker and upgraded suspension (2 inch lift). It rides better than the Jackaroo, especially with a full load, fit heaps in it under the canopy (easy to access through 2 liftup side windows), It fits in multi-level car parks even with the lift and roofracks. I've dust sealed it and on a recent 8000 km (4000 of dirt and serious off road towing) only a very fine layer of dust over those things which stayed in there all the time - and that was only from the car in front because I had the front sliding window open to pressurise the cabin). Only thing for serious off road is you'll need some sort of rear end protection - I've got a TJM rear bar/tow bar which cops a flogging but protects everything. They are easy to work on (running accessories to rear) and can take long range tanks and other goodies underneath. If you're serious about touring or offroading I think you'll need the full pay load offered by a Triton, and you can load them up safely to do Simpson Desert Crossing trips unlike a lot of mid size wagons which I know will exceed their payload (I've got 400 kgs worth of accessories on it when unloaded let alone water, fuel, people, food, camping gear etc.
Good luck in the decision and have fun in whatever you get.
Damien
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We had a d40 , I loved it, wife not so much, it was her daily drive, and my occasional beach fishing car
With 3 kids biggest nuisance was nowhere to throw school bags easily with a toneau needed a canopy but wife still wanted a wagon,
We ended up with the prado, much smaller than navara and miss the ute, but couldn't talk swmbo into another was trying to but no luck. Each to their own, but me would take ute with removable canopy over wagon anyday
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I had a Hilux loved it then got Landcruiser 100s I missed having a ute so chopped the cruiser into one. Best decision I made now I have the comfort of the wagon with benefits of the ute. Currently getting a canvas canopy for when travel.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
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We bought an extra cab - BT50 Freestyle - in a Cab chassis style...if you want the best of both worlds, and $$'s arn't too big an issue, why not a tray back ute and a drop on canopy? A proper canopy will eliminate the dust etc and the tray will allow for wood etc to be transported.
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A topic close to my heart. I started my search for a four by with the Triton and had really never taken notice of the Challenger. What swayed me was the fact that I would have been left with only 10cm spare in my garage with a Triton!
I really like the Challenger as it is compact but pretty effective as an all rounder. Just got back from Fraser and I went with two Tritons. It was noticeable how less frequently I was dragging my rear down the drops. And I got bragging rights as the only car not to get stuck he he.
A cargo barrier could help you with some of the wagon drawbacks?
Matt
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I could do with the ute, as I need to collect firewood, but dont want a canopy so I am unhindered from carting whatever I want. However, then I lose my boot space. But I get a 1 tonne pay load v 550kg (I'm guessing)
Weird -- can't have a ute with a canopy -- but you can have a wagon
The Challenger would better off road with no rear overhang like the Triton and a boot, but then I would need to haul a trailer around which is giving me the ****s (I have a double switchback driveway)
Just get a dual cab ute with tray --- that will solve the clearance at the rear, if it's done well.
My ute has a canopy on the flat tray with lift up sides, when camping, we collect and throw the firewood on top of the canopy before the arriving at the camp sites, and the alloy canopy with no windows is more secure, has easier access with lift up sides, and and is rather dust proof -- that's been well tested that through Roper bar-- Arnhem Land, areas on rough corrugated dusty rough roads etc.
I reckon if I had to collect firewood for home heating, I would just lift the side of the canopy and stack the firewood in, and on top of the canopy. Being a tough tray alloy canopy setup, I would not have to worry about firewood damaging the canopy.
If you really want a wagon -- just get a wagon, it's your choice.
:cheers: