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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: weeds on June 20, 2013, 10:28:14 AM

Title: Tred failure
Post by: weeds on June 20, 2013, 10:28:14 AM
A mate sent me a link to the below. These Tred's were apparently used in a 4x4 training day. Whilst info is missing regarding whether they were misused but i assume being a training day they would have been used as per manufacturers instructions. I'm glad I have access to four sets of MAXTRAX......having seen the MAXTRAX in action its hard to imagine they could break like that...

(http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/general-chat/61979d1371683917-tredz-tredz.jpg)
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: chisel on June 20, 2013, 01:10:51 PM
The image doesn't seem to show up for me.
Title: Tred failure
Post by: britts on June 20, 2013, 01:18:44 PM
No image here either
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: weeds on June 20, 2013, 02:26:08 PM
umm, i can see it, i will change the host tonight
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: achjimmy on June 20, 2013, 03:21:31 PM
My boss smashed a set of Maxtrax with his V8 patrol up the cape using them in mud.

Where as I don't know much about Treds I imagine its the sort of product that would be easy enough to damage pending environment horse power etc.
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: D4D on June 20, 2013, 03:24:24 PM
Is this the Tred picture you are referring too?

(http://blkmav.com/myswag/tred.jpg)
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: GeeTee on June 20, 2013, 06:39:12 PM
Yes those are the ones that failed during driver training. They were being used under a GVM-upgraded Patrol   
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: muzza01 on June 20, 2013, 06:47:16 PM
Some of our termites up here in the north are big and they don't just eat wood :Dq don't leave your Treads. Lying around too long up here.
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: Kydar on June 20, 2013, 07:27:59 PM
Damn things are worth a fair buck too. I reckon Id be pretty cranky if it happen to me especially if using them as their intended purpose.
Title: Tred failure
Post by: weeds on June 20, 2013, 07:43:24 PM
Is this the Tred picture you are referring too?

(http://blkmav.com/myswag/tred.jpg)


Yep that's the pic......
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: GeeTee on June 20, 2013, 08:48:25 PM
To be fair to the product they were being used under a heavy-ish vehicle (although not an un-expected situation) and although they broke they would remain useable/useful. And I reckon if you ask nicely TRED might replace them under warranty
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: kylarama on June 21, 2013, 06:37:09 AM
Wonder how these ones would be stronger than the above ones....

(http://www.4x4earth.com.au/forum/images/posts/988291_max.jpg)


Do they come in jarrah?
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: achjimmy on June 21, 2013, 07:57:29 AM
Be Interesting when the tyre rips out one of those studs? Tek screws make the best tyre deflators.
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: Brumbypt on June 21, 2013, 12:52:46 PM
How do u know they are TREDS cos to me they look like the Cheep copy that i have seen in my trailer parts supplier..

Gunna need more proof that they are treds..
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: Homer_Jay on June 21, 2013, 01:08:18 PM
Looks to me like someone left them too close to the fire!

 ;D


Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: kylarama on June 21, 2013, 03:45:06 PM
How do u know they are TREDS cos to me they look like the Cheep copy that i have seen in my trailer parts supplier..

Is that Jagsingh in Epping?  Seen them in their catalogue and wondered if they'd be any good.
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: rockman on June 21, 2013, 04:33:54 PM
everything can and will break given the right person

give a idiot a 12" piece of rail-line and they will work out a way to bend it

they don't cost a million dollars and it looks like it is / was well used before it broke
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: achjimmy on June 21, 2013, 06:19:53 PM
everything can and will break given the right person

give a idiot a 12" piece of rail-line and they will work out a way to bend it

they don't cost a million dollars and it looks like it is / was well used before it broke

Yep like I said the boss destroyed a set of Maxtrax under the V8 GQ ute with 35" maxis bighorns. Is that a fault of the Max trax? He bought another set so must have been satisfied.
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: Brumbypt on June 21, 2013, 10:51:24 PM
Is that Jagsingh in Epping?  Seen them in their catalogue and wondered if they'd be any good.

Also called trek tools now..

Yep, i felt one the other day, felt nice and strong enough to do the job..
They also had lots of other 4wd goodies there..

Great new shop now, i think anyone can walk in and buy stuff..


Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: Bill on June 22, 2013, 05:58:28 AM
How do u know they are TREDS cos to me they look like the Cheep copy that i have seen in my trailer parts supplier..

Gunna need more proof that they are treds..
I too don't believe they are TREDS.
We sell the TREDS at work and to the best of knowledge they only come in the long set which are green in colour and the short ones which are red in colour. Or maybe it's the other way around.
Anyway my point being that I've never seen TREDS in the colour of the ones in the picture...
Bill
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: D4D on June 22, 2013, 08:23:56 AM
Treds come in all colours

http://www.tred4x4.com/index.php/products (http://www.tred4x4.com/index.php/products)

Just as well they have this

(http://www.tred4x4.com/assets/images/MainSlideshow/slideshow_warranty.jpg)
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: achjimmy on June 22, 2013, 08:40:12 AM
Definetly look like Treds. So what happened? If I put up a photo of a broken landcrusier or camper trailer we don't all assume they are sh1t we want to know how it broke.
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: D4D on June 22, 2013, 09:06:11 AM
From the original post on PP

The Tred's are authentic, and they were brand new, took the zip ties off them before using them on this vehicle.

 They were placed in the bottom of a muddy rut for traction and road building, there were no rocks and they were not up against the side of the rut.

 There was an audible crack as the patrol went over them.

 Upon inspection there was a visible crack (once we washed the mud off) almost the entire length of the TRED, they were now broken.

 We left them in the hole as they still provided height and traction. Another patrol cam over and increased the split, then a 6t Canter finished them off.

 The one which appears to be whole is also cracked almost the entire length and actually has pieces missing.

 These were used at one of our regular training grounds (Our Burnett River Site) where we have used Maxtrax dozens of times under hundreds of Rural Fire Service (and other) vehicles without incident.

www.facebook.com/4x4training (http://www.facebook.com/4x4training)
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: achjimmy on June 22, 2013, 09:22:43 AM
Thanks mate, so it would seem that they are inferior to Maxtrax on that testimony and doesn't sound like they abused them (initially) but as above I know of Maxtrax failues as well.

Personally I think the environment these things are to be used in is always going to make it tough.

Lucky I have big Jules Mallee tracks, they come with a 10year , money back grantee with an instant recovery call out should they fail  :laugh:
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: P7Offroad on June 22, 2013, 06:15:15 PM
Hello Folks

It was me who broke these Treds.

They are actual, original, legitimate treds which come in a multitude of colours.

They were brand new.

They were not abused.

I'm glad that they were given to me.

I'll stick to Maxtrax  8)


www.facebook.com/4x4training (http://www.facebook.com/4x4training)
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: Bill on June 22, 2013, 06:44:15 PM
Treds come in all colours

http://www.tred4x4.com/index.php/products (http://www.tred4x4.com/index.php/products)

Just as well they have this

(http://www.tred4x4.com/assets/images/MainSlideshow/slideshow_warranty.jpg)

I stand corrected...
Bill
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: evolution on June 22, 2013, 07:43:22 PM
Have you tried trends warranty?

Cheers
Evo
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: Carlisle Rogers on June 22, 2013, 08:45:31 PM
My favourite, from TRED's website, under the History section:
"TRED sets itself apart due to ease of use and its specifically designed features. The two-in-one design of both a shovel and a heavy duty highly engineered recovery ramp make TRED the ultimate Total Recovery & Extraction Device."

It's uncanny that no Australian had come up with anything like that before...especially not anything coloured bright orange and patented with almost those exact words.

I kept waiting to see MaxTrax on TRED's History tab, but history, like anything else, is rarely written with the truth in mind.

Carlisle
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: achjimmy on June 22, 2013, 08:55:57 PM
Truth is all these plastic mats are just a modern day version of "marsden matting" anybody claiming any originality is full of if.

 if I could still get original marsden mats I would. Google marsden mat's they built airfields out of them during ww2.
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: alnjan on June 22, 2013, 09:02:18 PM
I am surprised people actually use them at all.  I thought they were just the latest piece of plastic bling to customise your vehicle with.  Some footage of people using them makes me really wonder why these people are referring to themselves as 4wders.
Title: Tred failure
Post by: ozbogwam on June 23, 2013, 09:11:09 AM
I am surprised people actually use them at all.  I thought they were just the latest piece of plastic bling to customise your vehicle with.  Some footage of people using them makes me really wonder why these people are referring to themselves as 4wders.

So you've never used them then? So you've never got stuck in deep sand or snow? They are a great bit of kit if you actually 4wd in those sort if terrains, can turn a complex recovery into a pretty simple one is used with a bit of thought
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: Carlisle Rogers on June 23, 2013, 10:12:21 AM
So I looked this one up. It is historically interesting, and while a set of these would be very helpful when bogged, I'm not sure they really suit the average traveller:

"A single piece weighed about 66 pounds (30kg) and was 10 ft (3.0 m) long by 15 in (0.38 m) wide."

To say that MaxTrax are unoriginal is akin to saying that the iPhone is really nothing but a fancy wind-up payphone. The TRED is more like an 'iPone' that you might pick up on eBay from Hong Kong, it looks the same, and is trading on someone else's intellectual prowess, but is essentially inferior.

I have noticed that there are two alternate, and incompatible, views in the world regarding the purchase of just about anything. In the one group are those that save for the best. They might make do when they can't afford the best, but they appreciate that buying better in the beginning saves money in the long run; also time, headaches, and when it comes to remote travel, maybe lives.
 
The second group always buys the cheapest: those plastic boxes for $12 that smash on the first trip away, the knock-off of whatever 4WD product is big this week, the GIC camper, any camera but a Nikon or Canon, the 3L Patrols from a decade ago. They will try to convince you (and themselves) of their wisdom, foresight and savings, but in the long run, old proverbs run true:

The fool buys everything twice.

Truth is all these plastic mats are just a modern day version of "marsden matting" anybody claiming any originality is full of if.

 if I could still get original marsden mats I would. Google marsden mat's they built airfields out of them during ww2.
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: achjimmy on June 23, 2013, 10:42:41 AM
So I looked this one up. It is historically interesting, and while a set of these would be very helpful when bogged, I'm not sure they really suit the average traveller:

"A single piece weighed about 66 pounds (30kg) and was 10 ft (3.0 m) long by 15 in (0.38 m) wide."

To say that MaxTrax are unoriginal is akin to saying that the iPhone is really nothing but a fancy wind-up payphone. The TRED is more like an 'iPone' that you might pick up on eBay from Hong Kong, it looks the same, and is trading on someone else's intellectual prowess, but is essentially inferior.

I have noticed that there are two alternate, and incompatible, views in the world regarding the purchase of just about anything. In the one group are those that save for the best. They might make do when they can't afford the best, but they appreciate that buying better in the beginning saves money in the long run; also time, headaches, and when it comes to remote travel, maybe lives.
 
The second group always buys the cheapest: those plastic boxes for $12 that smash on the first trip away, the knock-off of whatever 4WD product is big this week, the GIC camper, any camera but a Nikon or Canon, the 3L Patrols from a decade ago. They will try to convince you (and themselves) of their wisdom, foresight and savings, but in the long run, old proverbs run true:

The fool buys everything twice.

Yeah there was smaller Marsden mat that were carried on Jeeps as well (do you like the longitudal groves for winch cables?) But yep I do belive the Maxtrax aren't an original idea, a great product and clever concept on an older idea Yes.  a decade or more ago we were using that reinforced fiberglass that comes in sheets cut down to suitable sizes (I think some fourbie shops sell it now)

Re your other points mate I agree totally, people will always try to justify there  decisions often aggressively.

But just as obvoius today in the industry that has become "4wd " you have companies marketing and buying reviews and promoting products "over and above" what they are good for. And often the price of that product is reflective of that marketing and not the production costs.

Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: D4D on June 23, 2013, 10:43:22 AM
The fool buys everything twice.

I prefer, quality remains long after the price is forgotten.

Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: achjimmy on June 23, 2013, 11:47:44 AM
This was the stuff I was mention FRP grating, insanely strong.

I knew there was shorter Marsden but I think maybe it was just cut down?  Anyway see they had a "mounting " system sorted as well?
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: Carlisle Rogers on June 23, 2013, 12:18:52 PM
Jim,

The FRP stuff looks promising. If tyres bit into them, they would provide some lift in sand/ mud. If...
Without any protrusions on the top for the tyres to grip, though...I'm skeptical. Not discrediting, just healthily skeptical.

The steel ones...I'm just not sold that they would work when wet at all. I can see tyres slip-sliding all over them in anything but the conditions they were designed for, lying flat above a bulldozed site as a temporary road surface.  Ever ride a motorcycle on a steel grate drawbridge? You're praying and nearly closing your eyes the whole way to keep the thing going straight, there's zero lateral traction.

Of course, there's always corrugated steel as well, perhaps the worst possible traction aid known to man, and an even more diabolical thing to find half-buried in a water crossing. And yet, the amount of times I've found scraps of corry ripped to bits and waiting, like the fangs of ineptitude, to tear holes in my tyres is disconcerting.

It's worth noting that Australia's Special Forces have been ordering MaxTrax and eschewing any other option available on the market recently. Proof that even the military will eventually move onto better solutions.

C



Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: schmik on June 23, 2013, 01:26:40 PM
So I looked this one up. It is historically interesting, and while a set of these would be very helpful when bogged, I'm not sure they really suit the average traveller:

"A single piece weighed about 66 pounds (30kg) and was 10 ft (3.0 m) long by 15 in (0.38 m) wide."

To say that MaxTrax are unoriginal is akin to saying that the iPhone is really nothing but a fancy wind-up payphone. The TRED is more like an 'iPone' that you might pick up on eBay from Hong Kong, it looks the same, and is trading on someone else's intellectual prowess, but is essentially inferior.

I have noticed that there are two alternate, and incompatible, views in the world regarding the purchase of just about anything. In the one group are those that save for the best. They might make do when they can't afford the best, but they appreciate that buying better in the beginning saves money in the long run; also time, headaches, and when it comes to remote travel, maybe lives.
 
The second group always buys the cheapest: those plastic boxes for $12 that smash on the first trip away, the knock-off of whatever 4WD product is big this week, the GIC camper, any camera but a Nikon or Canon, the 3L Patrols from a decade ago. They will try to convince you (and themselves) of their wisdom, foresight and savings, but in the long run, old proverbs run true:

The fool buys everything twice.

Love your post. Except the part about canikon..... Pentax make some quality kit!
It's all about risks right??? Buy cheap chinese DVD players for the kids... why? Because who really gives poop when they fail.
A winch? Recovery gear? The vehicle? There is a reason I drive a toyota not a great wall (and there are max trax in the boot).

Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: weeds on June 23, 2013, 02:58:31 PM
This was the stuff I was mention FRP grating, insanely strong.

I knew there was shorter Marsden but I think maybe it was just cut down?  Anyway see they had a "mounting " system sorted as well?

i have two lengths of the grating and carried it around for a while.......its heavy, sharp corners etc.....i used one of them once to make a ramp, they have been sitting up the side of the house for the last three years. i do agree it would be hard to break them as i used them for a ramp i.e. bridging ladder
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: Chippy76 on June 23, 2013, 03:15:37 PM
I know a place where there is heaps of marsden matting!!! :D

Cheers Chippy :D
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: achjimmy on June 23, 2013, 05:37:17 PM
Jim,

The FRP stuff looks promising. If tyres bit into them, they would provide some lift in sand/ mud. If...
Without any protrusions on the top for the tyres to grip, though...I'm skeptical. Not discrediting, just healthily skeptical.

The steel ones...I'm just not sold that they would work when wet at all. I can see tyres slip-sliding all over them in anything but the conditions they were designed for, lying flat above a bulldozed site as a temporary road surface.  Ever ride a motorcycle on a steel grate drawbridge? You're praying and nearly closing your eyes the whole way to keep the thing going straight, there's zero lateral traction.

Of course, there's always corrugated steel as well, perhaps the worst possible traction aid known to man, and an even more diabolical thing to find half-buried in a water crossing. And yet, the amount of times I've found scraps of corry ripped to bits and waiting, like the fangs of ineptitude, to tear holes in my tyres is disconcerting.

It's worth noting that Australia's Special Forces have been ordering MaxTrax and eschewing any other option available on the market recently. Proof that even the military will eventually move onto better solutions.

C

FRP grating comes with either flat or with the top serrated, grips good. Again heavy though but very strong.

I agree I think the Maxtrax are great just don't accept they are a totally original concept.
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: GeeTee on June 23, 2013, 10:13:29 PM
So I looked this one up. It is historically interesting, and while a set of these would be very helpful when bogged, I'm not sure they really suit the average traveller:

"A single piece weighed about 66 pounds (30kg) and was 10 ft (3.0 m) long by 15 in (0.38 m) wide."

To say that MaxTrax are unoriginal is akin to saying that the iPhone is really nothing but a fancy wind-up payphone. The TRED is more like an 'iPone' that you might pick up on eBay from Hong Kong, it looks the same, and is trading on someone else's intellectual prowess, but is essentially inferior.

I have noticed that there are two alternate, and incompatible, views in the world regarding the purchase of just about anything. In the one group are those that save for the best. They might make do when they can't afford the best, but they appreciate that buying better in the beginning saves money in the long run; also time, headaches, and when it comes to remote travel, maybe lives.
 
The second group always buys the cheapest: those plastic boxes for $12 that smash on the first trip away, the knock-off of whatever 4WD product is big this week, the GIC camper, any camera but a Nikon or Canon, the 3L Patrols from a decade ago. They will try to convince you (and themselves) of their wisdom, foresight and savings, but in the long run, old proverbs run true:

The fool buys everything twice.

...but they got it for a good price
Title: Tred failure
Post by: BigJules on June 24, 2013, 12:20:33 PM
I can't agree that anyone who manufactures a recovery track made of some polymer is copying MaxTrax.

For me it is analogous to spoons. We've been using spoons for a long time. Initially they were made of wood or bone, then bronze, brass, eventually tin, steel and stainless steel. Then someone made them out of a plastic material.

Every spoon has a bowl and a handle as a result of its intended use, but it is still essentially the same tool it has always been.

I congratulate the MaxTrax folks. They took an idea forward and I believe they have done extremely well out of it. Well done, how could one not acknowledge success. They can also afford to sponsor lots of events (a good thing) and attempt to challenge (and limit) any potential competition.

Now, all you you please put down your rip off cutlery and think of another way to get the food to your mouth.
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: weeds on June 24, 2013, 01:46:52 PM
I can't agree that anyone who manufactures a recovery track made of some polymer is copying MaxTrax.


i dont think there has been any over the top discussion about copyrights in this thread....maybe one or two loose comments, plenty of other threads harp on a whole lot more

this thread has had plenty of discussion about different recovery equipment which i reckon would be helpful to those about to buy some

i do agree that many/most companies develop there products based on somebody elses idea or product 
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: GeeTee on June 25, 2013, 01:01:17 PM
After a thorough analysis, the boffins have found the cause of the splitting down the middle

(http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii518/GTCampers/whytredsbreak_zps5a621955.jpg) (http://s1257.photobucket.com/user/GTCampers/media/whytredsbreak_zps5a621955.jpg.html)

 ;D  ;D
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: briann532 on June 25, 2013, 02:51:40 PM
After a thorough analysis, the boffins have found the cause of the splitting down the middle

(http://i1257.photobucket.com/albums/ii518/GTCampers/whytredsbreak_zps5a621955.jpg) (http://s1257.photobucket.com/user/GTCampers/media/whytredsbreak_zps5a621955.jpg.html)

 ;D  ;D


PMSL..................  ;D ;D ;D

thats gold.
Title: Re: Tred failure
Post by: duggie on June 25, 2013, 07:35:05 PM
I don't know nuffin about  Marsden matting, MaxTrax or Treds but I do know that the side boards of the ute work well as does corrugated iron when stuck in sand, but nothing works real well once your tread blocks up with sticky mud.

cheers duggie