MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: darrenh on April 25, 2013, 11:36:55 AM
-
I have been researching whether there is any truth in the statement that police are targeting utes for items sitting in the back such as thongs, boots etc. News items on the web interviewing police state that there is no targeting occurring and the public via heresay is driving the untruths.
Has anybody on myswg actually been fined themselves.
Darren
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
I was wondering that myself, as almost every tray back ute in Sth East QLD has a net over it, even when there is nothing below...
Something must be going on, I have been meaning to ask a driver, but not had the chance as yet.
-
I'm screwed.
I've had a bucket of aggregate in the back of my Ute for ages..... just never got round to taking it out yet....
-
I'm screwed.
I've had a bucket of aggregate in the back of my Ute for ages..... just never got round to taking it out yet....
that is called traction control. Does not come under the heading of "unsecured load" ;D
BHG
-
i think you will find that anything in the rear of a ute or trailer that is not secured would become a projectile in a sudden stop.
hence the authorities fineing drivers.
-
i think you will find that anything in the rear of a ute or trailer that is not secured would become a projectile in a sudden stop.
hence the authorities fineing drivers.
and so they should, secure your load or empty your ute.
-
Come on I have heard rumours of being fined for a pair of thongs in the back
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
Come on I have heard rumours of being fined for a pair of thongs in the back
(http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_be337LZSfdg/TC2QpJVr_xI/AAAAAAAAAKc/PIaToQ5EHTY/s1600/iStock_000011141924Small.jpg)
common sense dude
Anyone who believes that should have their testicles removed to prevent breeding.
-
Anything can become a projectile at speed. A thong may not do much damage itself but if somebody swerves to avoid it that can cause an accident or worse. Secure your load or empty your ute, it is not that hard. I have had a roll of paper fall off a ute and a plastic bucket fly out just in this last year hence why I am a little precious on this.
-
Come on I have heard rumours of being fined for a pair of thongs in the back
I think it might depend on who was wearing them AND what the state of undress was!
-
a thong, a piece of paper or even an empty plastic bucket might not seem very dangerous items BUT........if they fall or fly out of your ute or trailer and someone swerves to avoid them and does a head on into another vehicle, try to explain that the plastic bucket is harmless to the coroner.
-
I go to Toowoomba at least twice a week for work duties, Up there you see their work utes have got load restraint webbing on.
I rarely see that locally. ???
That said I spoke to a customer who got a ticket in the West End area for a collection of items on his dashboard!
To say he was peeved off would be an understatement!!
cheers
-
So nobody has actually got a fine themselves then?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
Qld is only catching up with the other states, "cover your load"
It's also a mine vehicle safety requirement
-
The law in Victoria (from the Road Safety (Vehicle) Regs 2009 -
248 Load restraint requirement
r. 248
(1) The following requirements apply to a vehicle that is carrying a load—
(a) the load must be secured by a means that is appropriate to the vehicle and the nature of the load; and
(b) the load must be placed and secured on the vehicle in a way that prevents or would be likely to prevent, the load or any part of the load from—
(i) hanging or projecting from the vehicle; or
(ii) becoming dislodged or falling from the vehicle; and
(c) the load must not be placed or secured on the vehicle in a way that makes the vehicle unstable.
(2) In proceedings for an offence against the Act in respect of the contravention of a load restraint requirement, evidence of non-compliance with the performance standards recommended in the Load Restraint Guide, Second Edition 2004, published by the National Transport Commission, is admissible in evidence.
The Load Restraint Guide (to summarise 200 odd pages) basically says you need to have restraint capable of restraining 80% of the mass in a forward direction, 50% rearwards and sidewards, and 20% upwards.
I believe most other states have similar wording to Vic.
Peter H
-
So nobody has actually got a fine themselves then?
Why would you take the chance when you know the rules?
This law was in effect in NSW some ten years ago or more and yes, tradies were fined for loose items.
No different to having your dog tied to the back to stop it from jumping or failing out.
Beside the consequences of having something from your vehicle cause an accident, how about knowing you cause a death because you thought you knew better?
Also, all vehicles are not to drag mud and rubbish from a construction site on to a public road.
Really no different to after you have been off road and have mud stuck under your vehicle and a clump of mud causes an accident.
There's something to think about ;D
-
My son (a tradie) told me about this yesterday - yes two other tradies that he works with have been fined - $200 per item (doesn't matter what it is)!!! So if you have a couple of buckets, a broom and some tools it quickly adds up. Apparently everyone is sold out of cargo nets - this is soutside Brisbane.
-
I can't quote laws, but in FNQ, the Scalies (DMR) will fine you if you have a ute or truck load of unsecured crap. If its not tied down, it needs to have a net over it. If you have one of those crap elastic nets, and you an item in your ute/truck that will fit between the 150mm square holes, than you will get fined. Most savvy drivers up here use a bastederised fishing net cover. These are sold at most hardware stores and will secure items unless they are smaller than a 50c piece.
I think it's great that people get fined for not securing loads, and if its not tied down under one of these fishing net type covers, it's not secured. I have been hit with an esky lid, bucket (more than once) and a steel cap boot. The worst was a disc brake rotor off a scrap metal truck travelling the opposite direction at about 80 km per hour. It made a hell of a mess of my Holden panel van.
Bring on the fines.
-
So nobody has actually got a fine themselves then?
out of the hundred or so on here, it doesn't sound like it, but out of the 100's thousands of others on the road, theres a very good chance.
-
$200 per item is taking it a bit far. I would have thought $200 for the offence would the correct interpretation of the law.
What would the courts think of this?
I have now read the load restrain guidelines 2004 and it is clear that the police are writing these fines are taking the guidelines way out of context.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
$200 per item is taking it a bit far. I would have thought $200 for the offence would the correct interpretation of the law.
What would the courts think of this?
I have now read the load restrain guidelines 2004 and it is clear that the police are writing these fines are taking the guidelines way out of context.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
$200 per item is just drinking silver............try not having something tied down on a truck and you forfeit a couple of weeks pay.
-
I am in full agreement that items that can blow out or fall out of a tray should be restrained. But some items just can't fall out unless the ute was upside down.
A small heavy toolbox for example
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
$200 per item is taking it a bit far. I would have thought $200 for the offence would the correct interpretation of the law.
What would the courts think of this?
I have now read the load restrain guidelines 2004 and it is clear that the police are writing these fines are taking the guidelines way out of context.
Out of context? What part of tied down/secured is it that the cops are taking out of context.
I hope the courts would double the fine, give the prick court costs and back the cops up, not that they can drop the fines to less $$ if its written law.
So think of the poor innocent prick that is driving down the road, has some lazy ****tard tradie, or scrote going to the tip who is too stupid/lazy to tie down his Shit, it flies out, you swerve to miss it, and wipe out another car, pedestrian or hits a pole.
Tradie ****s off never to be seen again, and other people are wear it cause of his stupidity... cars written off, insurance now treats them like Nazi's cause they make a claim and then the fines and cops get involved... Yea awesome idea.
Out of context?? not a chance.
-
I am in full agreement that items that can blow out or fall out of a tray should be restrained. But some items just can't fall out unless the ute was upside down.
A small heavy toolbox for example
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
"A small heavy toolbox for example"
i have witnessed a 2 tonne rod bar slide off at 60 k's that wasnt tied down mate. now how would 2 tonne of bar move by itself?
-
I was just reading a news article on the Sunshine Coast that a council truck driver has picked up a few empty beers cans and had put them in the ute tray. Pulled up by the police and fined for an unrestrained load.
Beer cans?
The reason is asked this question was following listening to a tradie at work yesterday stating he was fined for his thongs and I had a hard time believing him.
Lost
The restrain guidelines are written to reduce the risk of an item that will cause damage to others from falling of a moving vehicle. I can't see some items causing any damage and some other items that could not fall of unless the vehicle was upside down.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
Its not just "fall out" but in the event of an incident like swerving they can slide from side to side and fly out that way. a toolbox may move nowhere in a straight line.
Anything can become a projectile. Why risk it?
I've seen personally a large cylinder (bout 8-10ft long and 3ft round at a guess) come off the back of a truck that only had a rope over it, he went round corner, it wasn't braced, and away it went.. luckily straight into the gutter.
There was a tipper with a trailer carrying a Backhoe on Western Port highway outside Dandenong couple of yrs ago that didn't restrain his Backhoe properly. Dunno how it happened but it came off and killed a mother and 3 kids when it landed on their mobile Shitbox coffin size car.
Why is it so hard to expect people to tie things down??
I drove trucks for the best part of a decade and would never leave the yard without roping/chaining down Shit...
Also you hear lots of things on the radio. Its like the internet "I saw it on the internet, it must be true"
-
"A small heavy toolbox for example"
i have witnessed a 2 tonne rod bar slide off at 60 k's that wasnt tied down mate. now how would 2 tonne of bar move by itself?
The 2 tonne rod bar sliding off is because the friction is not sufficient and probably no side gates. The guidelines cover this type of load and I agree, should be restrained from sliding off the deck.
We are talking about utes with sides on trays.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
So do you agree with the empty beer can fine?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
The 2 tonne rod bar sliding off is because the friction is not sufficient and probably no side gates. The guidelines cover this type of load and I agree, should be restrained from sliding off the deck.
We are talking about utes with sides on trays.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
ok then. put a camera looking at the floor of any ute or trailer. then put your tool box in there and film it. you'l be very surprised. even the best suspension in the world cant guard against a large pot hole im afraid. if objects sat still and never moved then why would there be a need for load restraints? think about it.
-
So do you agree with the empty beer can fine?
Not knowing 100% the facts, I'll stick with the bloke that was there.
Then again, I think its all horse**** and never happened.
if it was on a radio station, I'll bet it was bored arseholes trying to jump on the bandwagon and get themselves on air for 1.02seconds of fame.
-
Read this
http://www.themorningbulletin.com.au/news/misconception-law-cargo-net-sales/624973/
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
Sorry
Not Sunshine Coast it was Adelaide
http://www.adelaidenow.com.au/traffic-police-target-drive-anger/story-e6frea6u-1226191936347
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
I can't see some items causing any damage and some other items that could not fall of unless the vehicle was upside down.
Sorry, but you have done countless testing and have expertise to back this up?
Whether or not you agree with the reasoning behind these laws, they are law.
To argue the point is pointless.
Hope your pockets are deep. ;D
-
(http://www.emineomedia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/03/Emineo-Media-nike-just-do-it2.jpg)
-
I was wondering that myself, as almost every tray back ute in Sth East QLD has a net over it, even when there is nothing below...
Something must be going on, I have been meaning to ask a driver, but not had the chance as yet.
Yes. I've saw three yesterday and it really stood out to me. That was on the Gold Coast
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
Sometimes I don't think some people actually read the words written in the post.
I was looking for evidence of anyone getting a fine for an arguably safe item such as a pair of thongs or as in the news article some empty beers cans.
I did not ever put up an argument for any other type of load.
Put very simply. Is it fact or fiction.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
Fines for unsecured loads
If you don’t properly secure your load you may be fined, even if your load doesn’t come loose. There are three types of risk categories with varying fines. These fine amounts will increase as of 1 July 2009. The penalties differ between regular drivers and companies:
Minor risk breach:
An unsecured load that does not involve danger to a person, or the risk of damage to property or the environment.
Penalty: Individuals are fined $170 and the company $851
Substantial risk breach:
An unsecured load that poses a danger to people, property or the environment.
Penalty: Individuals are fined $454 and the company $2268
Severe risk breach:
An unsecured load that causes harm to people, or damage to property or the environment.
Penalty: Individuals and companies are taken to court
If any of the offences result in court, individuals and companies will also be liable for up to 500 penalty units for a company (up to $58,000) and 100 penalty units for an individual (up to $11,000)
Vic roads do it in victoria al the time,I was with a Truck driver who was fined $10,800 yes thats wright $10.800 for unsecured load,
I have been stopped twice on the western ring road by vic roads to check the back of the ute and see all is secured..
Now the lattest $ spinner for VR is to book truck drivers with a loss object on the tray, it has to be secured to a part of the load that is secured.
It only takes 5 minutes to secure your load. could be the best 5 minutes you spend
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/SaferVehicles/LoadsAndTowing/SecureYourLoads.htm (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/SaferVehicles/LoadsAndTowing/SecureYourLoads.htm)
Cheers
Geoff
-
Fines for unsecured loads
If you don’t properly secure your load you may be fined, even if your load doesn’t come loose. There are three types of risk categories with varying fines. These fine amounts will increase as of 1 July 2009. The penalties differ between regular drivers and companies:
Minor risk breach:
An unsecured load that does not involve danger to a person, or the risk of damage to property or the environment.
Penalty: Individuals are fined $170 and the company $851
Substantial risk breach:
An unsecured load that poses a danger to people, property or the environment.
Penalty: Individuals are fined $454 and the company $2268
Severe risk breach:
An unsecured load that causes harm to people, or damage to property or the environment.
Penalty: Individuals and companies are taken to court
If any of the offences result in court, individuals and companies will also be liable for up to 500 penalty units for a company (up to $58,000) and 100 penalty units for an individual (up to $11,000)
Vic roads do it in victoria al the time,I was with a Truck driver who was fined $10,800 yes thats wright $10.800 for unsecured load,
I have been stopped twice on the western ring road by vic roads to check the back of the ute and see all is secured..
Now the lattest $ spinner for VR is to book truck drivers with a loss object on the tray, it has to be secured to a part of the load that is secured.
It only takes 5 minutes to secure your load. could be the best 5 minutes you spend
http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/SaferVehicles/LoadsAndTowing/SecureYourLoads.htm (http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/SafetyAndRules/SaferVehicles/LoadsAndTowing/SecureYourLoads.htm)
Cheers
Geoff
and now the RMS are warning drivers of log books being stored on their dash boards. whether you agree with the fines or not.......they are the law.
-
BTW, This law also includes trailers and boats on trailers, even horse floats.
;D
-
Is it fact or fiction.
Fact/
-
I have heard the rumours. I have also been told it is Transport Inspectors, not Police, issuing tickets for unsecured loads. Regardless of who it is, I say go for it. Fine the idiots.
I was following a ute to work at about 10 o'clock one night, when a wheelbarrow fell off the back of the ute. I was on my motorcycle. Talk about a freckle pucker. Gee, I came close to being killed that night. Luckily I was at a safe enough distance behind the ute to take evasive action. Thankfully nothing was coming in the opposite direction or I would have been a goner for sure.
A mate was on the M1 heading towards Brisbane one night, again on a motorcycle, when he came up behind a ute. The ute's tailgate was hanging down and he was just changing lanes to go around it, when the tailgate came off and took him off his bike. Spent a few weeks in hospital for the ar$ehole's incompetence.
KB
-
BTW, This law also includes trailers and boats on trailers, even horse floats.
;D
Wow, so next time I take the boat out I need to tie everything down then?
Surely this is not enforceable by any copper with half a brain.
I can understand items that can bounce out of a tray, trailer etc but to get fined for having some tools or similar slide around in the ute tray is going too far. They are only likely to come out if the vehicle rolls and in that case they are the least of an issue.
-
Hi,
do it right the first time.
(http://i.imgur.com/RsfTT.png)
cheers
-
I was with a Truck driver who was fined $10,800 yes thats wright $10.800 for unsecured load,
I find this extremely hard to believe. As you state this would be nearly 100% of a severe risk breach for an individual which would mean the insecure load would of had to of come off the vehicle and done damage to person/property and then gone to court for the magistrate to impose a financial penalty.
I have yet to personally see the courts impose a fine close to maximum >:(. And if VicRoads had one awarded that close to the max. I am sure I would of heard about it.
Peter H
-
I can understand items that can bounce out of a tray, trailer etc but to get fined for having some tools or similar slide around in the ute tray is going too far. They are only likely to come out if the vehicle rolls and in that case they are the least of an issue.
I had a spare wheel in the tub of my ute, took a quick trip to bunnings to get something had a bloke pull out in front of me,swerved to miss him hit the gutter the spare ended up on the roof and caved it in considerably. Have made sure everything is tied down well since. It is surprising just how easy it is for something to go wrong.What if that spare had gone onto 6 lane road instead of on the roof and collected another car or worse a motorbike in an 80kmh zone chances are the bike rider would not be in good shape.
-
Wow, so next time I take the boat out I need to tie everything down then?
Surely this is not enforceable by any copper with half a brain.
I can understand items that can bounce out of a tray, trailer etc but to get fined for having some tools or similar slide around in the ute tray is going too far. They are only likely to come out if the vehicle rolls and in that case they are the least of an issue.
Oh yeah because if a ute goes over with loose 'tool' sized things in the back and they fly out at 60km or more and hit someone that other wise would have been ok, yeah I see your point NOT.
These rules just like all others are written for the absolute worst case situation.
Personally I've have a tonneau cover on all the time and tie down points inside the tray and keep 4 250kg ratchet straps in the cab. If i've just got my work boots in there, a tonneau is plenty.
It seriously cost 3/8 of stuff all to comply with the law, It's people that abuse the law which forces the law to be so strict in the first place.
-
Anybody found the fines in QLD.
I have been googling with no result yet
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
Wow, so next time I take the boat out I need to tie everything down then?
Surely this is not enforceable by any copper with half a brain.
I can understand items that can bounce out of a tray, trailer etc but to get fined for having some tools or similar slide around in the ute tray is going too far. They are only likely to come out if the vehicle rolls and in that case they are the least of an issue.
You sound like one of those pub experts that doesn't wear a seat belt so you can 'jump clear of the crash'...? ;D
I was in Qld the other day on a training day (I live in NSW) and one of the topics of conversation/training was: everything must be tied down, then a cargo net over the top. And EVERY ute I witnessed on my way home had a cargo net.
When you think about it, it does make sense
-
When you think about it, it does make sense
Unfortunately it's not common >:D
Sense that is ;D
The effort, expense and time it take is FA compared to the damage that can be caused "because I don't reckon it's right, what a silly rule"
Life is about rules, how we play within these rules makes life what it is. ;D
-
I have been unlucky enough to be the recipient of someone's unsecured load.
In 2001 I was following a mini skip truck at 100kph on the highway. I don't even recall seeing anything in the skip bin. Then suddenly a few lengths of 50mm box tubing came flying out.
It went several directions as it hit the road and I had nowhere to go. One piece went under the rodeo that I was driving and pierced through the floor on the drivers side and then continued through the drivers seat base missing my backside by about 1cm and then through the back of the cab. That was the lucky part. The impact of it stood the rodeo up on two wheels causing it to loose control into the guard rail in a big way.
The skip truck kept driving.
Fine these bastards as much as possible. It could happen to any one of us at any time. If have also copped a plastic outdoor table the fell off a ute going the other way and also almost been cleaned up by two kayaks when the roof rack broke ...
Sent from Behind you...BOO
-
I find this extremely hard to believe. As you state this would be nearly 100% of a severe risk breach for an individual which would mean the insecure load would of had to of come off the vehicle and done damage to person/property and then gone to court for the magistrate to impose a financial penalty.
I have yet to personally see the courts impose a fine close to maximum . And if VicRoads had one awarded that close to the max. I am sure I would of heard about it
The driver crossed Footscray rd with a b double with both trailers curtains opened , no gates and no ropes or tie down on any part of the trailer load, both trailers full of general freight
Cheers
-
I have been unlucky enough to be the recipient of someone's unsecured load.
In 2001 I was following a mini skip truck at 100kph on the highway. I don't even recall seeing anything in the skip bin. Then suddenly a few lengths of 50mm box tubing came flying out.
It went several directions as it hit the road and I had nowhere to go. One piece went under the rodeo that I was driving and pierced through the floor on the drivers side and then continued through the drivers seat base missing my backside by about 1cm and then through the back of the cab. That was the lucky part. The impact of it stood the rodeo up on two wheels causing it to loose control into the guard rail in a big way.
The skip truck kept driving.
Fine these bastards as much as possible. It could happen to any one of us at any time. If have also copped a plastic outdoor table the fell off a ute going the other way and also almost been cleaned up by two kayaks when the roof rack broke ...
Sent from Behind you...BOO
did you read this Seenthelight?
-
The foreigners seem to be able to do it alright?
-
We could learn from them.......
-
getting better....
-
The driver crossed Footscray rd with a b double with both trailers curtains opened , no gates and no ropes or tie down on any part of the trailer load, both trailers full of general freight
So it didn't fall off, so therefore didn't satisfy - "Severe risk breach:
An unsecured load that causes harm to people, or damage to property or the environment.
Penalty: Individuals and companies are taken to court"
Could only be "Substantial risk breach:
An unsecured load that poses a danger to people, property or the environment.
Penalty: Individuals are fined $454 and the company $2268"
Substantial risk breaches are typically dealt with on the spot fines (in Vic about $500, your $ above are a year or so old I think), although the officer (or the defendant) could elect to have the matter dealt with in court. The officer could also elect to prosecute the company (under chain of responsibilty legislation). Maybe this is what has happened and the company was the recipiant of the $10000 fine, although I think this is still fairly high for a magistrate to hand out. Maybe there was a lot of priors so the magistrate included a "moron" component :cup:.
Heard of a case recently where a company got penalised nearly $10000 for about 30 or 40 significant excess mass offences and that was considered a good result ???
I apoligise for pushing the point, just trying to minimise the Chinese whispers (I am sure you heard exactly what the trucky said, but maybe he used a bit of poetic licence :laugh:
Peter H
-
lockyer valley you go 350 a time if you have anything in the back uncovered, do not use 6 x 6 inch mesh as if one can pull any item out through the mesh you go 350 dollars so go the small 2 inch mesh
cheers :police:
-
I've no idea about fines, but one of the first things I bought for my dual cab when I got it was a cargo net. Where the real scandal is, is that Autobarn want $10 for a bag of 6 little plastic hooks to hold the thing down with! >:(
-
Sometimes I don't think some people actually read the words written in the post.
I was looking for evidence of anyone getting a fine for an arguably safe item such as a pair of thongs or as in the news article some empty beers cans.
I did not ever put up an argument for any other type of load.
Put very simply. Is it fact or fiction.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
I know a mate that was fined for a loose pair of gumboots. He took them off after finishing a concrete job, threw them into the back of the ute and got pulled up 5 minutes down the road. I don't know if it was police or TMR inspectors that booked him though.
Out of curiousity why is this such a big deal for you?
-
I know a mate that was fined for a loose pair of gumboots. He took them off after finishing a concrete job, threw them into the back of the ute and got pulled up 5 minutes down the road. I don't know if it was police or TMR inspectors that booked him though.
Out of curiousity why is this such a big deal for you?
We have a fleet of utes at work and one of our subcontractors said to one of our guys he got booked for thongs in the back of his ute. My WHS officer asked me if the rules had recently changed for utes. I was unable to answer him and I said I would find out. I had seen the mine requirements out west but had started to see the nets on utes around Brisbane. I googled everything I could not find any rules for QLD, hence the question on myswg. I did find the load restraint guide from 2004 but this did not give penalties.
I still have not found any official legislation on the amount of the fines or demerit points.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
I know in NSW it was a direction to members of the highway patrol to enforce the unsecured load on utes and trailers and the reason it came about was following the death of a young girl on the M5 who was crushed in her car by a semi trailer following her,when she attempted to break and attempt to avoid a ladder that had fallen from a tradesman vehicle. I am aware of this as a family member is a serving member of the HW patrol and enforces this as part of his regular duty,
-
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf] [url]http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf (http://[url)[/url]
Ref page 31 on.
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf (http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf)
Some interesting reading.
Keeping in mind I deal pretty well exclusively with heavy vehicles for me to issue an infringement for insecure load I have to prove the load wasn't secured in a manner appropriate to the vehicle and load (ie baling twine to hold on D6 dozer, no matter how much twine you use), or the load had insufficient restraint to meet the standards of the "Load Restraint Guide), or the load could move making the vehicle unstable (ie 5 tonne counter weight in 10 tonne capacity tipper sliding all over the place inside the body), or the load DID come off, or the load DID come off and DID cause damage or harm to persons or property (note DID, not could of).
We have specific written "yes" "no" type flow path to determine the severity of the offence.
I believe NSW have very similar legislation, work instructions as us (Victoria). I would assume Qld is also very similar.
In a nut shell I would have to have evidence that the thongs/gumboots/beer cans could/did come off the vehicle in normal driving (note normal driving also includes evasive manuevres, heavy braking etc ie 0.8g which is where the LRG gets it's 80% forward restraint from, but does not include accident, rollover etc). If they did come off I would have to prove they DID cause harm or damage to person or property. If I can't (or in the magistrates opinion I can't) provide the appropriate evidence there is no offence.
Peter H
-
[url]http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf]http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf] [url]http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf (http://[url=http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf)[/url]
Ref page 31 on.
http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf (http://www.legislation.qld.gov.au/LEGISLTN/CURRENT/T/TrantOpRUMDR05.pdf)
Some interesting reading.
Keeping in mind I deal pretty well exclusively with heavy vehicles for me to issue an infringement for insecure load I have to prove the load wasn't secured in a manner appropriate to the vehicle and load (ie baling twine to hold on D6 dozer, no matter how much twine you use), or the load had insufficient restraint to meet the standards of the "Load Restraint Guide), or the load could move making the vehicle unstable (ie 5 tonne counter weight in 10 tonne capacity tipper sliding all over the place inside the body), or the load DID come off, or the load DID come off and DID cause damage or harm to persons or property (note DID, not could of).
We have specific written "yes" "no" type flow path to determine the severity of the offence.
I believe NSW have very similar legislation, work instructions as us (Victoria). I would assume Qld is also very similar.
In a nut shell I would have to have evidence that the thongs/gumboots/beer cans could/did come off the vehicle in normal driving (note normal driving also includes evasive manuevres, heavy braking etc ie 0.8g which is where the LRG gets it's 80% forward restraint from, but does not include accident, rollover etc). If they did come off I would have to prove they DID cause harm or damage to person or property. If I can't (or in the magistrates opinion I can't) provide the appropriate evidence there is no offence.
Peter H
Thank you very much Peter
I will do the reading
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
GeeTee
did you read this Seenthelight?
Yes, it was not me driving the b double.
I for one do not leave the depot with a unsecurer load.
The way I look at it is I will not put other familys in danger
hoping others will not put my famaly in danger.
But saying that I have found lots of goodies
(tools. rubber straps, ladder,pipe fittings, 18v drill kit)
Cheers
-
No worries, seenthelight,
I sometimes stop to pick up debris from the F3 freeway, lots of buckets, boots, tools, vi-vis vests, blocks of wood, hard hats, Even a ladder one day
-
Sometimes I don't think some people actually read the words written in the post.
I was looking for evidence of anyone getting a fine for an arguably safe item such as a pair of thongs or as in the news article some empty beers cans.
I did not ever put up an argument for any other type of load.
Put very simply. Is it fact or fiction.
Didn't happen to me, but to my brother when I was sitting in the passengers seat - does that count?
He had a pair of boots in the back, copper pulled him up for an RBT and fined him $100 for unsecured load. When my brother arced up about it, the copper made it $100 per boot, so $200. My brother shut up after that.
Moral of the story - secure your load, don't put loose stuff in the tray, and secondly don't be a dick to a copper.
Another thing to consider - see all that rubbish along the side of the road? Not all of that is by people throwing rubbish out the window, a lot of that is rubbish being blown out the back of utes.
-
A few years ago the lad was travelling in his car on a country road when an oncoming ute crested a hump ahead of him and a large box flew out on the road and he unavoidably hit it with a minor dent to the front fender which needed repairing. Ute owner was quite apologetic and it seemed he was confident the new boxed car panel (a fender I believe) didn't need securing and he'd come some distance with it already with no probs.
I used to ride motorcycles and recalled the day I bent a front rim on a Bonneville 650 and nearly lost it, unable to avoid a 4x4 timber bearer that fell off a truck tray and bowled end over end toward me before it went under my front wheel. The truckie didn't even stop to offer me a smoke and a new pair of jocks at the time.
Don't come crying to me about being fined for being a lazy dickhead.
-
We have been told by the rta inspectors that the rule of thumb is if you could turn the truck upside down and anything falls off, thats worthy of a fine. thats trucks but im sure utes wouldnt be far off. they just dont target utes anywhere near as much
-
thats trucks but im sure utes wouldnt be far off.
Had a factory on the road to the metro tip and what an education that was with the trailer, ute, roof rack crowd plus the flying zuchini brother types just 'dropping off a load'. Before digital cameras and Youtube I'm afraid but the pros knew the RTA inspectors were regular spectators for some of the most amazing dickheads you'd ever see in your life.
-
We have been told by the rta inspectors that the rule of thumb is if you could turn the truck upside down and anything falls off, thats worthy of a fine
They used to have a field day down at the homebush fruit markets with some of the loads those blokes stacked on. overloads and most was just sittin on there...
-
I had a spare wheel in the tub of my ute, took a quick trip to bunnings to get something had a bloke pull out in front of me,swerved to miss him hit the gutter the spare ended up on the roof and caved it in considerably. Have made sure everything is tied down well since. It is surprising just how easy it is for something to go wrong.What if that spare had gone onto 6 lane road instead of on the roof and collected another car or worse a motorbike in an 80kmh zone chances are the bike rider would not be in good shape.
How fast were you going to have that happen?
Really this is just over the top bureaucratic revenue raising with people getting fined for not securing small items such as thongs, beer cans.......... etc. At some point people need to apply common sense and be responsible for their own actions, or inaction.
And FWIW I would have had that tyre secure so a lesson well learnt there mate 8)
-
Please everyone secure it and cover it if possible for small stuff and properly don't worry about whether The law is an ass or stupid or whatever just do it,
one of my friends is no longer with us due to a poorly secured piece of timber that came off a vehicle.
-
How fast were you going to have that happen?
Really this is just over the top bureaucratic revenue raising with people getting fined for not securing small items such as thongs, beer cans.......... etc. At some point people need to apply common sense and be responsible for their own actions, or inaction.
And FWIW I would have had that tyre secure so a lesson well learnt there mate 8)
Can you imagine what might happen if a thong or beer can flew out and hit a motor cyclist or push bike rider in the face or visor?
It would more than likely cause an accident!!!
Sent from Behind you...BOO
-
Can you imagine what might happen if a thong or beer can flew out and hit a motor cyclist or push bike rider in the face or visor?
It would more than likely cause an accident!!!
Sent from Behind you...BOO
Oh my!
-
Oh for god sake you lot, it's the law to restrain your load, the law is the law and trying to put up every excuse under the sun on a forum like this wont change the law, so abide by the law or run the risk of getting fined. Should be end of story, other wise run for parliament and change the law.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
Oh for god sake you lot, it's the law to restrain your load, the law is the law and trying to put up every excuse under the sun on a forum like this wont change the law, so abide by the law or run the risk of getting fined. Should be end of story, other wise run for parliament and change the law.
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
looks like someone need a red wine and a hug 8)
-
looks like someone need a red wine and a hug 8)
Are you offering Mark :)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
Are you offering Mark :)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
no not desperate Carl :-*
-
no not desperate Carl :-*
Ha Ha :)
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
Really this is just over the top bureaucratic revenue raising with people getting fined for not securing small items such as thongs, beer cans.......... etc. At some point people need to apply common sense and be responsible for their own actions, or inaction.
Yep, so called 'common sense' would tell you not to put unrestrained stuff in the back, so that you don't have it fly out and either litter the side of the road, or hit some other poor bugger.
It is pretty obvious that those who argue against these fines are severely lacking in 'common sense'.
-
Symon.
Ever notice people with common sense don't have a Degree?
8)
-
Didn't happen to me, but to my brother when I was sitting in the passengers seat - does that count?
He had a pair of boots in the back, copper pulled him up for an RBT and fined him $100 for unsecured load. When my brother arced up about it, the copper made it $100 per boot, so $200. My brother shut up after that.
Moral of the story - secure your load, don't put loose stuff in the tray, and secondly don't be a dick to a copper.
Another thing to consider - see all that rubbish along the side of the road? Not all of that is by people throwing rubbish out the window, a lot of that is rubbish being blown out the back of utes.
Thanks Simon
The only one with first hand proof
I read the legislation and it appears that the transport inspectors are allowed to charge a maximum of 20 penalty units at $110 per unit or $2200.
I have asked a few police and their answer was they are more than busy with other offenses.
This has been an interesting subject. I didn't think it would be so confrontational.
-
In SA it will cost you $1000 per offence. This includes unrestrained items in a station wagon with no cargo barrier, or items in front of the cargo barrier or in the cabin of a ute or sedan. Cannot find the article now, but do know of an occasion where an elderly lady was fined in Petreborough SA for having the newspaper on the front seat.
Pretty simple, keep it secure or the contents of your wallet are at risk.
-
Late last year, I saw a 1 tonne odd safe in the middle of the Eastern Freeway. All the gouge marks in the road were testament to its path of travel after it came off the back of the crane truck it had been sitting on. The truck driver was working his backside off winching it back on the tray bed. Imagine smacking into that at speed !! Luckily that did not occur. Oh, and not a load binder in sight. The bloody thing had been just sitting on the truck. How do I know? I stopped to help out and got it from the horse's mouth !! He thought the weight of it would be sufficient !! Hmmmm !! Goes to show, just because it is heavy does not mean it is going to stay there.
-
Here’s something else which can spoil your day.
MUD which falls off your vehicle, big dried chunky bits which fall off underneath the vehicle following a good weekend.
Yes, you can be fined for this to.
I have worked on sites where all heavy vehicles leaving the site to enter public roads pass over an extended cattle grid and wash down bay to shake off access dirt.
The fines for this on the commercial scale are big, I also know it can be applied to your average 4wd, but no details at hand for what the fines are.
In addition, if you lights are not clear due to dirt etc, you can be fined for this to…..
Yep, its sad etc etc, but it is the rules.
-
Symon.
Ever notice people with common sense don't have a Degree?
8)
I don't think it is limited to those with degrees, but rather those who practise critical thinking - this is of course what you learn with higher order education but plenty of non-tertiary educated people do it as well.
I can't remember where I read it but there is a good example associated with traffic lights and levels of thought.
Lowest level - "I won't run that red light because I will get in trouble"
Medium level - "I won't run that red light because it is against the law"
Higher level - "I won't run that red light because someone could get hurt"
The concept of "common sense" sits below the lowest level.
-
Here’s something else which can spoil your day.
MUD which falls off your vehicle, big dried chunky bits which fall off underneath the vehicle following a good weekend.
Yes, you can be fined for this to.
I have worked on sites where all heavy vehicles leaving the site to enter public roads pass over an extended cattle grid and wash down bay to shake off access dirt.
I mentioned that earlier,
Also, all vehicles are not to drag mud and rubbish from a construction site on to a public road.
Really no different to after you have been off road and have mud stuck under your vehicle and a clump of mud causes an accident.
It was ignored.
:cheers:
-
I don't think it is limited to those with degrees, but rather those who practise critical thinking - this is of course what you learn with higher order education but plenty of non-tertiary educated people do it as well.
I can't remember where I read it but there is a good example associated with traffic lights and levels of thought.
Lowest level - "I won't run that red light because I will get in trouble"
Medium level - "I won't run that red light because it is against the law"
Higher level - "I won't run that red light because someone could get hurt"
The concept of "common sense" sits below the lowest level.
I think that believing that people with degrees don't practise common sense is like saying that tradespersons all have tunnel vision and lack the ability to comprehend multiple solutions to problems.
Is the forum becoming a place for antagonism and mud slinging?
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
-
I guess this trucky is in trouble...
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/freeway-closed-after-truckie-loses-load-20130501-2irnb.html (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/freeway-closed-after-truckie-loses-load-20130501-2irnb.html)
Police closed a section of the Hume Freeway on Wednesday morning after a pallet fell off a truck, spilling machine parts across the road.
-
I was in Qld again yesterday - every ute I saw had a net over it.
-
Sorry Harris, I failed to read that.
Just saw a great example, in Oxenford this morning.
Guy in a ford Ranger ute with 6m lengths of roofing sheets held onto his car at the rear tray pipe rack bar with 8 mm polly string, and at the front with clear packing tape over the sheets above the drivers door, into the passenger window, across inside of car, out of drivers door and over the top again. About 6 raps I counted....
The safety feature was.
1. hand out the window to gauge how much lift there was under the sheets, yep, the drivers hand.
2. slow speed of vehicle according to amount of lift. Into the wind, he was managing about 38 k p/h.
Safety at its finest.
Sorry I couldn't take a video of it.
-
Safety at its finest.
Sorry I couldn't take a video of it.
50 Bucks off ebay for a dash cam.
Post it on youtube and give a copy to the coppers.
Make sure it is date and time stamped correctly.
:cheers:
-
How fast were you going to have that happen?
Really this is just over the top bureaucratic revenue raising with people getting fined for not securing small items such as thongs, beer cans.......... etc. At some point people need to apply common sense and be responsible for their own actions, or inaction.
And FWIW I would have had that tyre secure so a lesson well learnt there mate 8)
I' agree that on some things, like fines for being momentarily more than 2 kph over the speed limit are pretty much just fundraising because, even with cruise control on permanently, it is still not possible to ensure that you remain under the limit in all situations, it isn't always safe to run with cruise control and it is dangerous to focus primarily on the speedo while driving.
However this issue is different.
I'm not interested in f*ctards 'taking responsibility for their ... inaction'. I, and the rest of us, are ENTITLED to have ourselves and our loved ones remain as safe as can be expected on the roads through compliance with the law by others.
If said f*tards aren't prepared to comply with the law then it is reasonable to expect that they won't take responsibility for that inaction either. Besides which, nothing can bring back a loved one, restore a damaged body or brain.
Yes, a member of my extended family lost her father and bro in a road 'accident', and was lucky to not be killed herself at a very young age...
-
Anything can become a projectile at speed. A thong may not do much damage itself but if somebody swerves to avoid it that can cause an accident or worse. Secure your load or empty your ute, it is not that hard. I have had a roll of paper fall off a ute and a plastic bucket fly out just in this last year hence why I am a little precious on this.
if a thong was thrown out of the back of a ute and the driver had a body and looks of a sex goddess i would swerve for it and hopefully get a sniff.
-
As a truck driver from Brisbane I can tell you the dept transport have been targeting utes in areas around Brisbane lately.Is it worth the risk put a cover over ute and all is fine.
-
I think it's a good thing.
I was riding the motorcycle one day in Bris on a narrow back-road , and approached a Hino truck coming the other direction. As we were around 20m apart, a sheet of roofing iron lifted off the back and started to weave through the air towards me. I had no where to go, so just had to brake as hard as I could and try to guess which way it was going to go. It landed pretty much dead-centre of my lane. Scariest 8 seconds of my life. The tradies driving the truck didn't even notice.
Another time I was riding across the Victoria bridge, and watched a sofa on a ute in front come neatly sliding off into the middle of 3 lanes of traffic. That made everyone's morning.
Every ute up here has a net over it. I've often wondered what the rules are, since they all seem to be those big-hole nets, with half a dozen plastic hooks tying them down, yet they're securing wheelbarrows, cement mixers, etc... ??? I guess the local cops must be keener on enforcing the "cover your load" part than the "make sure it's adequately secured" part.
Cheers,
Matto :)
I don't always Tapatalk, but when I do, I make sure to misspell everything.