MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: idlegossip on January 29, 2013, 11:36:25 PM
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Being the Australia Day long weekend and having kept a close eye on the CFA and BOM websites we decided to go camping around the Howqua Hills.
After 2 great days in the hills, it was obvious why everyone is so on edge about the bush fires. It was dry and very dusty, the Howqua Creek was running lower than usual, and generally most people were sensible with their campfires. However, one group that was camped near us really should of been shot. We noticed their campfire was left unattended on several occasions throughout the days we were there, but I was absolutely gob smacked went I returned to camp on Monday arvo after a morning of 4wding to see that they had packed and left BUT they had made absolutely no attempt to extinguish their campfire and left it smoldering. They had left a decent log in the fire which was red hot and would of burnt for hours. Would hate to think what could of happened if the wind decided to pick up.
We made sure it was put out before we left but you would think people would be more vigilant with camp fires given the current warnings and concerns around this especially in the days prior to the weekend.
End of rant....
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Makes you wonder how some people can be so dumb... or irresponsible.
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How come campfires are even allowed this time of year? In WA they are banned from about December 1 to end-March, for very good reasons.
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How come campfires are even allowed this time of year? In WA they are banned from about December 1 to end-March, for very good reasons.
The closer you are to the political capital the more concessions you get - we just get treated like half witts who have to have everything regulated :'(
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Take their rego and a photo if possible.
On 4WD Victoria's web site is a Dob in a hoon form an details.
They will pass the details on to DSE for action. There have been a few prosecutions from this process.
I don't really like dobbing in people, but it is the only way these areas will stay open and we get to enjoy the freedom we have.
Tracks have been closed and now it won't be long before campfires are banned because people are irresponsible.
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Take their rego and a photo if possible.
:cup:
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Another classic case of a few mindless morons ruining things for the responsible majority. In Qld there are very few camping grounds where fires are still allowed. Frustrating to say the least. Happened to me on a trip to Teewah beach last year where pulled in to camp and previous people had buried their fire in sand. It was still smoking thru the covering layer. We have 2 young kids and they could have run straight over it. Then camp trip would have been over before it started with a rapid and painful trip to the nearest hospital. Fires should be put out with water and left uncovered so others know where it was. Covering with sand traps heat in. Aargh!! Idiots abound I'm afraid. The day will come when you won't be able to enjoy one of life's true camping pleasures.
My 2c worth. (Maybe this post belongs in the daily rant thread)
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We have had to put out others fires before too once on a day trip to the river we arrived no one else there but a fire still burning not just smouldering took a bit to put it out with the couple of water bottles we had in car filling from river. If u dont mind can we add take ALL your rubbish out too please
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The closer you are to the political capital the more concessions you get - we just get treated like half witts who have to have everything regulated :'(
It's because of half wits like in the OP that everything ends up regulated, the Govt is just trying to protect the idiots (and everyone else) from their own brain dead actions.
IMO there should be no campfires anywhere in Australia at this time of the year, it's just too risky and unecessary!
:cheers: Brett
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Being the Australia Day long weekend and having kept a close eye on the CFA and BOM websites we decided to go camping around the Howqua Hills.
After 2 great days in the hills, it was obvious why everyone is so on edge about the bush fires. It was dry and very dusty, the Howqua Creek was running lower than usual, and generally most people were sensible with their campfires. However, one group that was camped near us really should of been shot. We noticed their campfire was left unattended on several occasions throughout the days we were there, but I was absolutely gob smacked went I returned to camp on Monday arvo after a morning of 4wding to see that they had packed and left BUT they had made absolutely no attempt to extinguish their campfire and left it smoldering. They had left a decent log in the fire which was red hot and would of burnt for hours. Would hate to think what could of happened if the wind decided to pick up.
More fuel to Andrews argument to ban camping from Oct/March..
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HI IDLEGOSSIP...Your post is noted and warranted..YES,these A***H**** should be shot..i have been on the road for four years after retirement, and what i have seen A/H s do is beyond comprehension !!! I have just left a public reserve place at the bottom of the main street in Wagga Wagga N.S.W. just over the bridge.. this place was chock full of both male and female pot smoking squatters camping in tiny tents with a bunch of bloody dogs, the fighting and night noise from these b******s was hard to put up with, so i pulled out after a couple of nights...thank god 99% are good people.
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It's because of half wits like in the OP that everything ends up regulated, the Govt is just trying to protect the idiots (and everyone else) from their own brain dead actions.
IMO there should be no campfires anywhere in Australia at this time of the year, it's just too risky and unecessary!
:cheers: Brett
Exactly, however I do not agree with your last statement. Camp fire bans should be based on weather and ground conditions in an area and not be a blanket date (just like it use to be). Problem is we can never have this as there are to many FW'ts who will not follow signage and rules and have no care for their own or others safetly so we all have to suffer the over regulation.
Funilly enough I was having a discussion about this with a local govt employee who came to check on a campground I was staying at over the long weekend. The signage on the way in said "All fires are restricted between October and March" I pointed out that this was unclear (no I did not have a campfire as I knew what it meant in this region) and not particularly prosecutable as it said restricted and in many areas restricted means just that. In these areas fires during restricted season are only banned during high or extreme fire danger days or something similar. If they wanted no fires the signage should clearly state banned or pohibited.
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If they wanted no fires the signage should clearly state banned or pohibited.
problem is, scrotes would rip out the sign and burn it.
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problem is, scrotes would rip out the sign and burn it.
.........after putting a few rounds into it, to make sure it didn't put up a fight.........
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Makes you wonder how some people can be so dumb... or irresponsible.
agree :(
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problem is, scrotes would rip out the sign and burn it.
True, but having unambiguos signage allows scroates to be prosecuted so they can add another unpaid fine to their list >:(.
Funny you said this as the shire officer told me she rolled up the week before to find some scroates with a fire going, cooking their sausages on the new alumium amoebic menengitis health warning sign. The didn't rip the fire sign down as that was to far to walk!
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The problem is that they just get warnings. We have plenty of regulations already in place, enforce them in a meaningful way. Make the fines big enough to be a problem, don't give warnings or suspended sentences
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fines are my biggest gripe............... they should be scaled to your income - i mean if i cop a fine for whatever @ $1000 it would hurt my pocket, but someone like Alan Bond goes out and does the same thing and get a $1000 fine it would mean nothing to him
but back on topic, has anyone else noticed it's nomally the "boys weekend away" crowd that leave their fires unattended?
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fines are my biggest gripe.. they should be scaled to your income
They do that scaled thing in some countries.
or to fit the crime.
Finland, Denmark (unlimited)
Highest Fines: $200,000 (or more)
Even if you're one of the richest men in Europe, a nearly $200,000 speeding ticket is going to pang just a little (and that was in 2002, when $200,000 was a lot of money). The Trick here is that Finland, and nearby Denmark, both levy speeding fines depending on the annual income of the driver unfortunate enough to pick up a ticket. In this case, records showed that Jussi Salonoja, a 27-year-old heir to a northern European meatpacking empire, earned $11.5 million in 2002, which after a complex calculation by the courts resulted in the world-record fine of about $200,000. And all that for driving 50 mph in a 25 mph zone. A Finnish business executive also had a $165,000 fine reduced to a mere $9000 after he restated his earnings to the courts.
http://autos.aol.com/article/highest-speeding-fines/ (http://autos.aol.com/article/highest-speeding-fines/)
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Mate last week copped a red light camera in Sydney. He's a semi driver, got nailed $400 as his truck cant do 0-100 in 3.1 seconds from a standing start fully loaded.
On the other hand, some bloke smashed up a cop car, copped $300 fine. ??? ??? ???
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Apparently in Europe, the sort of access to wilderness areas that we take for granted here is, such as camping and 4WDing is forbidden. Maybe that could work here. Lock it all up and then there's no worries about rubbish, unattended fires, vandalism or the cost of enforcement.
Although such an approach would solve all the issues most effectively, I don't think too many Australians want to see that happen, yet we are inching ever closer to it as each year goes by; more track closures, more regulation and more constraint on what is considered acceptable and safe.
I liken it to cars and roads. We all know roads are very dangerous and that hundreds are killed every year. We regulate to minimise that through speed limits, seat belts and wotnot but road deaths are still common. Solution... ban cars. Too extreme? then what about reducing the speed limit to 1. Without a doubt many hundreds of lives would be saved, yet we don't do this. Why? because we have collectively decided (whether consciously or not) that road deaths, along with pollution, environmental destruction, etc are acceptable consequences of the freedom, lifestyle and convenience provided by the road transport system and private car ownership.
Likewise with camping, 4WD and public access to wilderness. Though not in the same league as my example, if we decide collectively as a society that these freedoms are desirable and worth keeping then we must also accept that there is a price in the form of environmental damage, risk of bushfire, accidental deaths and so on. They are minimised through appropriate regulation and enforcement but will never be eliminated unless those activities are banned completely.
If that is to happen then let it be called for what it is, debated openly and voted on. Not introduced by stealth and attrition as has been happening for decades.
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Ive seen my fair share of family campfires left unattended. Usually with a camp oven half buried nearby.
Last one was at Pineapple flat at the Tambo owners weekend last Nov. Yes, they were still in the area - downstream 300m or so fishing, but the fire was still unattended. Ranger Chris from Mansfield pulled up about 30 minutes after I saw them walk away. After recognising and chatting to me for half an hour (some people's memory amazes me, I've been out of the Service for 16 years - he joined just before I left) and then doing the toilet clean run, the usual trick of 60 litres or so of water on the fire did the trick.
Lo and behold, they then return to their site. After another 30 minutes of talking/warnings, Park staff left. The unhappy camper then did the full rounds of the camsites in the area, reinterating the warning he had just been given. At least he appeared to have lernt from the experience.
Now, the legalities.
As far as i am aware (or what the legislation said back in the 90's, and I think is still current), in Victoria a Warning can be given if the Fire regulations are contravened during the Prohibited Period, EXCEPT if that contravention is on a day of Total Fire Ban. Discretion is not allowed on those days.
Like WA's signage, the term "Prohibited Period" in Victoria is also confusing, as fires are Not Permitted during this period, EXCEPT if they comply with the Campfire Regulations. As well, the Prohibited Period applies for the whole year in Forests & NP Areas, but only for designated times on Private/other Crown Land. Then there is the Victorian CFA "Fire Danger Period". See:
http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/fire-and-other-emergencies/fires-today-incident-summary/fire-restrictions (http://www.dse.vic.gov.au/fire-and-other-emergencies/fires-today-incident-summary/fire-restrictions)
if you want to make sense of it!
So, IMO, there are so many rules and regulations in place that points of proof become confusing in any other case than lighting/maintaining a fire on a TFB Day, which is why many potential prosecutions become warnings instead. And thats only in Victoria! The differences from state to state are even come confusing.
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How come campfires are even allowed this time of year? In WA they are banned from about December 1 to end-March, for very good reasons.
Over here in SA you can't even camp in some national parks during fire ban season, let alone light a fire.
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It's because of half wits like in the OP that everything ends up regulated, the Govt is just trying to protect the idiots (and everyone else) from their own brain dead actions.
IMO there should be no campfires anywhere in Australia at this time of the year, it's just too risky and unecessary!
:cheers: Brett
I don't think a blanket ban would be the answer. Halfwits probably wouldn't know about the rules existing in the first place and thus still do what they would want. IMO, these type of rules are usually followed by people that enjoy a particular sport/hobby and would like to see it continue so that their kids/grand kids can experience it the same way we do now, and half wits would never understand why these restrictions would be introduced and then decide to carry on about how unfair they are without looking at their own actions as a part of the problem.
This wasn't a boys weekend group but a mixed group in their early 20's looked like uni students so you would of thought they would be aware of the current fire danger. It had been plastered on the TV all week.
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Although as stated about signs and they wouldnt read em anyway, maybe some stateing that there are hidden cameras around camp sites to enforce and capture people lighting fires and leaving rubbish etc and they will be fined etc etc, obviously there would have to be some cameras here and there they could move about like they do with the red light cameras here in Queensland well in Marybrough anyway.
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I have seen all the above in 16yrs with NSW NPWS, I just spent two 3 day shifts on the Coonabarabran fires and an illeagle campfire is the reason that has been speculated (and is most credible), by campers who had been directed to extinguish it in front of a Parks officer and then relit it when he /she left. This mentality that the idividual has the "right" to do whatever they feel is justifiable to their own limited thought processes and to hell with anyone or thing that dissagrees, and I apply this to the Shooting in Parks/unrestricted access to public lands/speed limits/etc Where do you draw a line,
as discussed above, if you want to keep access to the areas you love we must all take responsibility and dob in drongos, for it is these people who are erroding your access to areas with their selfish attitudes and all the restrictions that are complained about, and can almost totally be attributed to the behaviour of the selfish few who are allowed to get away with it by those who say nothing.
We have all seen things that fit this discussion and the most effective method to control the ones that want to inflict the restrictions that their behavior brings on the good majority is to speak by taking photos/regos/ and making a stand.
Just remember that these people are often willing to be abusive or even violent in justifying the bad behavior and you should be very carefull and avoid confrontation just get details and send them on to the managers of the area
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Grizzly, what about camp grounds where fires are permitted in the open bbq's provided. A couple of years ago we were staying at Girraween NP (in Qld I know, Just) and had a 44 gal drum cut in half with breather slits in the sides for a fire. Now we had done this the previous year with the approval of the ranger, however on the particular trip in question the ranger said put out your fire. The bbq's have no front and the lid can be tilted back so you can have a fire of sorts no question. My point is that the drum is no more a threat to trees etc and is actually safer as it is fully enclosed and no coals etc can fall out of it like the front of the bbq. Any thoughts or experience with NSW govt attitude to this?
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Over here in SA you can't even camp in some national parks during fire ban season, let alone light a fire.
Yes and IMO that's how it should be, don't even give the thought process challenged pole smokers a chance to destroy our beautiful parks, wildlife, peoples property and threaten lives including the lives of the people who have to go out and fight these fires.
There are plenty of other places to go camping in the summer months and you're usually allowed to have a gas BBQ except on total fire ban days.
:cheers: Brett
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We too strike the odd moron on occasion. Last time it took 60L of precious water to put out the stump they were burning the night before. I reported it to the camp ground owner ... hopefully he made contact with them. It was through summer and we were in a bush setting so it could have been kat-astrophic for his business.
Kit_e
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In NSW NPs you are allowed fires in designated fire places ( not informal ones) and you must comply with the fire danger rating of the day. and you must bring your own fire wood. Allthough I have visited some other NPs lately and they are still supplying fire wood, I will not try to work that out, all I do is follow the instruction the people who sign my pay check tell us too. (untill lotto changes the balance of power)
Grizzly ;D :cup: :cheers:
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In NSW NPs you are allowed fires in designated fire places ( not informal ones)
The current legislation makes no reference to permanent or designated fireplaces. See http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=26970.msg418276#msg418276 (http://www.myswag.org/index.php?topic=26970.msg418276#msg418276)
Division 2 Bush fire danger periods
24 Application of Division
This Division applies during bush fire danger periods.
25 Lighting fires for cooking etc
A person must not light a fire in the open to cook, heat or prepare meals
or to boil water or for any similar purpose unless the fire is lit at a site
surrounded by ground that is clear of all combustible matter for a
distance of at least 2 metres.
Maximum penalty: 20 penalty units.
Then again, there might be some special conditions applying to National Parks. Very confusing if so.
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Until lotto changes the balance of power
Grizzly ;D :cup: :cheers:
:cup: or an election. Lotto solves more problems, but only for you! I wish you all the luck on this quest, remember if you win its ok (& very Australian, I might add) to share..