MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: BigJules on January 28, 2013, 06:36:01 PM
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I've been watching the news this afternoon and seen terrible footage of the floods in QLD and northern NSW.
Every so often they go to a clip of vehicles driving through water over the road. It's not even reaching the sills of the sedans but the drivers are being heavily criticised.
I feel some of this is over the top, but I'm wondering if my moral compass is still pointing north?
I certainly agree that one should be wary of flood water and especially fast moving water or deep water, but if these cars weren't driving the water wouldn't reach the wheel centres.
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Have to agree but there are a lot of Darwin candidates out there that will try the stupid crossings
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I guess it depends on where they are driving.
If it is in a residential area and the bow wave pushes water to a higher level yes that is really inconsiderate. That extra 50mm of water can mean the difference of water getting in to someone's home or not.
Out in the middle of nowhere and the height your talking about, go for your life.
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I've been watching the news this afternoon and seen terrible footage of the floods in QLD and northern NSW.
Every so often they go to a clip of vehicles driving through water over the road. It's not even reaching the sills of the sedans but the drivers are being heavily criticised.
I feel some of this is over the top, but I'm wondering if my moral compass is still pointing north?
I certainly agree that one should be wary of flood water and especially fast moving water or deep water, but if these cars weren't driving the water wouldn't reach the wheel centres.
Mate we are totally pampered $&@#ed up pack of softc0cks no doubt about it IMO. That's why they get away with he ridiculous laws they do.
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The emergency services have been busy rescuing people who had driven though flood waters and one motorcyclist died.
I can understand them being overcautious. On days like this I think you have to restrict 99% to protect one aspiring Darwinian.
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Out in the middle of nowhere and the height your talking about, go for your life.
Might be famous last words. You never know what is under that 300mm of water.
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Might be famous last words.
Exactly.
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So, if one cannot/should not drive through flood water, how about a trip to the Cape? Or Arhnem Land?
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wow,, can of worms big fella.!
BHG
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I guess it all depends mate, Different circumstances for different people. But in answer to your question BLOODY OATH, I mean comon! They are now talking about putting a tax on soft drink, as it's not healthy for you. With everything else that they do I feel like I live in a Nanny state! It really does drive me nuts!
ok rant over before it gets bad....
Cheers
Evo
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Might be famous last words. You never know what is under that 300mm of water.
OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE DONT TELL ME THIS IS ANYWHERE NEAR ROCKHAMPTON !!!!!!!!!
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sad012.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
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No problem there, it'll buff out :laugh:
(http://www.myswag.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=27640.0;attach=70172;image)
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My thoughts are yes be over cautious as at what stage do you say don't cross flooded roads. If it reaches half way up your wheels , 2/3rds up etc. Rather be safe than sorry.
Regarding the Cape. Completely different story. You walk the crossings , have the appropriate gear and have support ready. You are driving a 4wd.
Most people who have never driven a 4wd and only drive around town would be unsure and not have the experience attempting water crossings.
I then feel sorry for the ses, rescuers that then have to save them if it goes pear shaped.
Just my opinion.
Mark
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So, if one cannot/should not drive through flood water, how about a trip to the Cape? Or Arhnem Land?
That is a completely different scenario.
Do you drive a sedan up the Tele track.
Do you do the cape without recovery gear.
Do you know what you are doing.
Is what you are doing up the cape going to put others lives at risk.
But your question relates to the current floods in urban areas.
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wow,, can of worms big fella.!
BHG
For sure. And please, don't anyone think I don't understand what the emergency services VOLUNTEERS go through or that things can go wrong with water crossings, I started this to gauge whether it was just me thinking that perhaps the nanny state was going too far.
Let me cite an example. A few weeks ago I took my wife and two girls down to Manly beach in Sydney. It was a picture perfect day, calm sea, small swell and surf and lots of people on the beach. We were at the south end of the beach near the surf club. The red and yellow flags were flying, but only about 35m apart! The surf was packed. You couldn't swim or boogie board without hitting people.
We sat just outside the flag area. The surf was calm. my wife and 9yo were on boogie boards and I was holding the 2yo in knee deep water. A surf club member came over and asked us to move. I declined, pointing out that we were safe and that the area between the flags was too crowded for the boards. He got stroppy and smart with me, asking me who knew the beach better. I was polite but resolute in return. He went for reinforcements, I got the shirts and we left. Several minutes later the head life guard comes over the PA to the whole beach with a condescending lecture about beach safety. I was in knee deep water FFS.
Right next to us, members of the same surf club are swimming in and out, training etc. Once again, I am not having a go at SLSC, a brilliant organisation manned by dedicated volunteers, but the age of no-amount-of-risk-allowed-whatsoever is starting to p!ss me off. No personal responsibility leads to no personal accountability.
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Regretfully, the days of "she will be right" are gone. Look at the bull Shite OHS etc. We all want to sue , submit a claim for injuries etc.
Mate we could all add our own scenarios regarding over zealous rules and people.
Any way back to the topic.
Mark
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I can see where you're coming from Jules. All this 'nanny state' does it make it so people no longer need to use common sense, which is creating people who have no idea on how to stay safe/alive unless there is a big sign telling them what to do. Now this is keeping alive all those people who would normally be lost due to 'natural selection'. Take away natural selection and you are left with a whole lot of idiots. Now and idiot is never going to find a smart person as a mate, they are going to attract another idiot. What do you get then? A race of uber idiots....you really have to wonder what is going to happen to the human race :/
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I'm currently stuck at home due to flood waters. I know that I could get into work tomorrow by going through some water and would always walk the crossings before driving them. But if I do I also know that the plod could be on the other side waiting. Guess I will just have to go tidy up the shed ready to start working on the kitchen for the camper.
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OH FOR THE LOVE OF GOD PLEASE DONT TELL ME THIS IS ANYWHERE NEAR ROCKHAMPTON !!!!!!!!!
(http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/smiley-sad012.gif) (http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys.php)
Neerkol creek Bridge (just past the Stanwell overpass) Westwood-Rockhampton
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I'm currently stuck at home due to flood waters. I know that I could get into work tomorrow by going through some water and would always walk the crossings before driving them. But if I do I also know that the plod could be on the other side waiting. Guess I will just have to go tidy up the shed ready to start working on the kitchen for the camper.
Mate that's a no brainer, you don't want to go to work :cheers:
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Neerkol creek Bridge (just past the Stanwell overpass) Westwood-Rockhampton
NO !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Did anyone see that footage from earlier today of the car driving past the bus, a couple guys in high viz jackets jumping out the way, you couldn't even see the headlights, but thê bow wave coming through.............
Cool footage!
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My thoughts are yes be over cautious as at what stage do you say don't cross flooded roads. If it reaches half way up your wheels , 2/3rds up etc. Rather be safe than sorry.
Regarding the Cape. Completely different story. You walk the crossings , have the appropriate gear and have support ready. You are driving a 4wd.
Most people who have never driven a 4wd and only drive around town would be unsure and not have the experience attempting water crossings.
I then feel sorry for the ses, rescuers that then have to save them if it goes pear shaped.
Just my opinion.
Mark
I agree. Some areas might be safe for someone who knows what their doing to cross through flood water in a 4wd, but how can police separate who can or who can't have a go and drive through? Is it really worth it? Today we saw a bloke in a captiva cross a flooded road near us, he got swept a bit but managed to get through. There are two other unflooded routes he could have taken, but chose to go the flooded way.
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Mate that's a no brainer, you don't want to go to work :cheers:
Yeah - tough choice!
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No problem there, it'll buff out :laugh:
(http://www.myswag.org/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=27640.0;attach=70172;image)
Similar to the family that were killed nth of sydney with a similar washout.
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no-amount-of-risk-allowed-whatsoever is starting to p!ss me off.
Agree 100% mate. I remember when there were such things as open speed limits, no RBTs, smoke wherever you like (even at work), no hi-vis clothing, no life jackets oars or anything required in boats, no seatbelts and no friggin gates keeping you out of anywhere moderately interesting.
..and you know what? people survived (mostly). I'm not saying some of these things aren't positive but JFC, there's no substitute for brains and commonsense and people killing themselves through a lack of it are no great loss to the gene pool.
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Agree 100% mate. I remember when there were such things as open speed limits, no RBTs, smoke wherever you like (even at work), no hi-vis clothing, no life jackets oars or anything required in boats, no seatbelts and no friggin gates keeping you out of anywhere moderately interesting.
..and you know what? people survived (mostly). I'm not saying some of these things aren't positive but JFC, there's no substitute for brains and commonsense and people killing themselves through a lack of it are no great loss to the gene pool.
.. and sadly the more they attempt to protect morons from themselves, the worse it will get.
One day you will need a permit to leave home or piss against a tree in the forest... dont doubt it will ever happen.
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For sure. And please, don't anyone think I don't understand what the emergency services VOLUNTEERS go through or that things can go wrong with water crossings, I started this to gauge whether it was just me thinking that perhaps the nanny state was going too far.
Let me cite an example. A few weeks ago I took my wife and two girls down to Manly beach in Sydney. It was a picture perfect day, calm sea, small swell and surf and lots of people on the beach. We were at the south end of the beach near the surf club. The red and yellow flags were flying, but only about 35m apart! The surf was packed. You couldn't swim or boogie board without hitting people.
We sat just outside the flag area. The surf was calm. my wife and 9yo were on boogie boards and I was holding the 2yo in knee deep water. A surf club member came over and asked us to move. I declined, pointing out that we were safe and that the area between the flags was too crowded for the boards. He got stroppy and smart with me, asking me who knew the beach better. I was polite but resolute in return. He went for reinforcements, I got the shirts and we left. Several minutes later the head life guard comes over the PA to the whole beach with a condescending lecture about beach safety. I was in knee deep water FFS.
Right next to us, members of the same surf club are swimming in and out, training etc. Once again, I am not having a go at SLSC, a brilliant organisation manned by dedicated volunteers, but the age of no-amount-of-risk-allowed-whatsoever is starting to p!ss me off. No personal responsibility leads to no personal accountability.
Jules, in regards to your topic - YES.
This thread could go on for years, but I reckon the problem is that we have to regulate to allow for incompetent fools who have no common sense or ability to make a decent judgement.
Unfortunately you can't make rules for some and not others. (Unless your a politician with your snout in the trough!)
This of course lead to the widely known "Give a man a jacket or vest " syndrome. Where I did a course and passed, cos me boss paid for it so I now know better............
I try to use my own judgment and if someone tries to enforce their alternative on me, well the outbacks a BIG place. Just don't forget your shovel. >:D >:D >:D
Remember some people are only alive because its against the law to kill them.
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we have to regulate to allow for incompetent fools who have no common sense or ability to make a decent judgement.
Q1. Why
Q2. Is that even possible
Q3. Is such regulation worth the loss of liberty to competent persons
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you have to make your own decisions in life and be prepared, that the outcome, may not be what you were hoping for.
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Because they aren't getting out and walking the flooded water first. All well and good to say its only 30cm deep but you have no idea if the roadway has washed away, no idea what debris is in the water, the flow rate of the water.
It's really not a biggie, don't drive in flood waters because when it goes pear shaped you ate pulling services away from where they are actually needed rather rescuing someone who thinks its ok.
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I dont mind the govt suggesting things a bit like I do as a dad.
Son, wear shoes when mowing the lawn okay?
If he chooses not to then he lives with the mongo feet.
No need to rant and rave and "oh my god your putting rescuers lives at risk" crap they go on with over and over and over and over....
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There is another problem to this. We are finding that the authorities cannot provide accurate information and people are taking risks because because of the inaccurate info provided.
Mate stuck in Moree and trying to get back to Toowoomba was told by Moree police he could get through by going through St George, I said no way however because he was told by a policemen it would be OK away he went with his whole family only to find out the road from St George to Moonie was closed so he had to turn around and drive another 2 hours back to Gundy.
Also saw a so called current RACQ road report (was out of date by 24 hours) showing roads closed that were actually open, many people didn't come to work at our job site today becasue of this in accuraccacy . >:(
I have several other similar and true stories. One would think that over the last few years with the amount of floods we have had the authorites would have it down pat by now ???
Wartim
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Yes, Yes, and most definately.
It's driving me nuts :'(
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you have to make your own decisions in life and be prepared, that the outcome, may not be what you were hoping for.
(http://sysabingo.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/myjackpot.png)
I think 90% of people are in that boat.
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Let me cite an example. A few weeks ago I took my wife and two girls down to Manly beach in Sydney. It was a picture perfect day, calm sea, small swell and surf and lots of people on the beach. We were at the south end of the beach near the surf club. The red and yellow flags were flying, but only about 35m apart! The surf was packed. You couldn't swim or boogie board without hitting people.
We sat just outside the flag area. The surf was calm. my wife and 9yo were on boogie boards and I was holding the 2yo in knee deep water. A surf club member came over and asked us to move. I declined, pointing out that we were safe and that the area between the flags was too crowded for the boards. He got stroppy and smart with me, asking me who knew the beach better. I was polite but resolute in return. He went for reinforcements, I got the shirts and we left. Several minutes later the head life guard comes over the PA to the whole beach with a condescending lecture about beach safety. I was in knee deep water FFS.
Right next to us, members of the same surf club are swimming in and out, training etc. Once again, I am not having a go at SLSC, a brilliant organisation manned by dedicated volunteers, but the age of no-amount-of-risk-allowed-whatsoever is starting to p!ss me off. No personal responsibility leads to no personal accountability.
Hi Bigjules,
You will probably find these bods are 'Lifeguards' employed by either the local businesses or Council and not SLSC people. Been told to squeeze people into little tins and get into anyone outside their flags?
Won't be long before Councils will only allow locals onto the beaches >:D . Where do you live? License please! Sorry, you're from the west. Nick off. Maybe make you swim outside the flags or even find special areas with rips for westies.
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A surf club member came over and asked us to move.
I'm not sure they have the power to make you move. I was in a similar situation a few weeks ago.. life guard walked over and told us there was a rip directly in front of us, and that it was their duty to ensure we were told. I thanked her for the advice but didn't move since we were using a sheltered shallow pool to the side and kept clear of the rip. The lifeguards didn't bother us and I ensured the family was aware not to swim into the rip.
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The life guards are employed by the council and it is they who allow 40m of beach for several hundred people to swim in. The guy who lectured me was a life saver.
It is the council that starts the issues (or is it?) by being so afraid of litigation that they don't allow people to do anything. Perhaps it's not the council so much as our laws which do seen to allow idiots to blame others.
This is not dissimilar to locking is out of the bush so it never gets damaged (by us).
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I'm not sure they have the power to make you move. I was in a similar situation a few weeks ago.. life guard walked over and told us there was a rip directly in front of us, and that it was their duty to ensure we were told. I thanked her for the advice but didn't move since we were using a sheltered shallow pool to the side and kept clear of the rip. The lifeguards didn't bother us and I ensured the family was aware not to swim into the rip.
it would have been the cap of awesomeness power that gave them the power....
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Neither SLSA or Council Paid Lifeguards have the authority to move you on....................most clubbies are tossers, alot of the Council Paid guys are good surfers and blokes who know there stuff and can't be bothered with that sort of sh!t. Sounds like you got a weekend warrior............what a f&cktard.
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Swimming between the flags is like swimming in a council pool.
You can't see it but you just know your swimming in everyone else's p#ss.
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To the Heading of this thread, yes yes and yes!!!! The reason is because every body is always looking for someone else to blame. Regulations are put in to cover somebodies bum for somebody else's stupidity. OH&S in workplaces is the best example. Some of the things we have to do these days, to complete a days work is crazy, just to cover stupidity or laziness of fellow workers or the public.
Example! I was replacing boards on a public board walk that we're rotten. Various boards scattered all over the place. So I barricaded the area of with tape, bunting and signage. I pulled up all the boards that were damaged leaving holes everywhere that people could fall in. By the end of the day I was over the amount of " normal every day sensible people" that went under over around my signage and barricades. I just couldn't believe it, and hen told not to they would get the huffs, " I walk the everyday" " my car is parked just there"
So yes I do agree and hate all the rules and regs, but most of them are there to protect someone who as been bitten by someone who can't/won't take on their own stupidity.
P.s not taring everyone with one bush cause accidents do happen, and sometimes rules or the people that enforce them can take it too far!
Cheers
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No, No & Yes ... just some of us are a tad more under experienced in life (read: have no common sense).
For example, I work in an office where the worst that could happen to me is that I get donked on the head with a dodgy light fitting or stab myself with a staple or rip myself to shreds with a piece of A4 ... but each morning I have to "evaluate" my workplace. HELLO ... hasn't changed since yesterday ... or last week ... or the year prior. Oh, hang on ... someone moved my chair!
Kit_e
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x WPHS Officer here, PITA but believe me some of us need protection. Note I said some of us. There are some major idiot's out there. Workplace laws are there to protect the business owners, company directors etc from very large fines and possible jail terms, if there is a fatality and they are shown to be negligent.
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Did anyone see that footage from earlier today of the car driving past the bus, a couple guys in high viz jackets jumping out the way, you couldn't even see the headlights, but thê bow wave coming through.............
Cool footage!
You mean this one (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1fZ59HSADV4#)
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as long as people act like arsehats, we will continue to be over regulated....
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one word ABSOLUTLEY.....
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Power was out in our office last month and being government funded I decided to work in a government building for the day...could not believe the warning signs every where....I didn't know how dangerous it could be going to the loo
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Yeah, once upon a time,
sometime tripped over something because they weren't looking where they were going, so they jumped up, quickly looked around to ensure no-one saw them go over, then walked or limped off, muttering to themselves for being stupid.
In this day and age,
sometime tripped over something because they weren't looking where they were going, so they laid on the floor screaming help until someone came, called 000 and had them bundled off to the ER.
Here, is where the real acting takes place, not like that crap on TV.
Bung on a sore back, hurt neck and other various drama's whilst calculating in their head, how much money they need to retire. Oh look, a solictor just happened to follow my ambulance to the hospital, thats handy.
Now, 3 years latter, a sum of $857,238 is awarded, less 60% to the solicitor and little Mary or Johnny lives happily for ever after.
OH CRAP, little Mary or Johnny is a dufus, and wastes all the money they scammed, but can't work because of said fake injuries, so poor ol taxpayer looks after them until one day, a mild mannered mowerman who has just mowed their Govt. assisted house, goes postal, because he is mowing their housing commission property and being paid in Govt. assist coupons, and kills the previous mentioned lazy bastard by beating the crap out of them until the mowerman, already tired from mowing 5 other properties, drops with exhaustion.
End of nursey rhime.
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Over regulated with too many stupid laws......?
Try working in the building industry ????????
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Here, is where the real acting takes place, not like that crap on TV.
Reminds me of this Woman fakes injury in court (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rrtSvCPaygs#)
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Reminds me of the time we had a bad spate of accidents in our patch. Sadly, three youths, all under 18, killed in seperate accidents caused by what some people call risk taking behaviour. Others would call it country kids doing country things, namely riding in the back of utes.
The powers that be wanted answers as to how to stop this behaviour and reduce the injury/fatality stats (a commendable idea) - someone thinking out loud suggested it was Police/Government/Society's fault.....they went on to explained that had legislation not be passed many moons earlier regarding speed, seatbelts, XPCA etc, then the young people of today would not exist simply because their grandparents or parents would not have survived to breed.
Although criticised for this train of thought, I can see the logic - hard to argue with if you ask me.