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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: WilSurf on December 10, 2012, 11:14:40 AM

Title: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 10, 2012, 11:14:40 AM
Hi all.
Hopefully there is someone here with pc knowledge.  ;D
Last week after starting up my computer ( a nearly 2 year old desktop) I inserted an USB stick.
When I clicked on "open files" in the pop-up screen, a blue screen appeared and I could read something about data dump.....100%
Then the computer shut down and started again.
Only to come up with a black screen.
No working mouse and no keyboard anymore.
It looks like it dosn't go through its normal startup cycle.
What is it and more importantly what can I do?
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Bird on December 10, 2012, 11:19:22 AM
Hi all.
Hopefully there is someone here with pc knowledge.  ;D
Last week after starting up my computer ( a nearly 2 year old desktop) I inserted an USB stick.
When I clicked on "open files" in the pop-up screen, a blue screen appeared and I could read something about data dump.....100%
Then the computer shut down and started again.
Only to come up with a black screen.
No working mouse and no keyboard anymore.
It looks like it dosn't go through its normal startup cycle.
What is it and more importantly what can I do?
1 - throw USB stick in fireplace and start fire..

2 - if it doesnt go thru normal startup cycle, not much really.
Take it to a shop to get looked at.

are there any warning beeps? Does it make any sound?
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Trex_s4m1 on December 10, 2012, 11:27:53 AM
you are WA hey? im near Perth mate if you want i can have a look for you.
whats it running? XP or Win 7?
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 10, 2012, 12:10:04 PM
The fans are running, no beeps.
It is running Windows 7 64-bits.

I am in Perth, northern suburbs in Tapping.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Mallory Black on December 10, 2012, 12:11:04 PM
My desktop misbehaved and wouldn't start up last week, according to my geek the files got currupted by an update from microsoft.
It's running XP, he says that he's been to a dozen PC's with the same problem

had to re-install windows to fix, I've since bought an external drive to save my pictures etc just in case something like that happens again
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: l0ckym on December 10, 2012, 12:15:13 PM
Press F8 as it tries to boot, and select Start in Safe Mode - if it lets you. Then reboot once its all loaded.

OR

Depending on the machine, try to access the BIOS - turn the pc on, and press delete, or F2/F12 (again - depending on type).

Then select Load BIOS defaults.  Could have forgotten where its disks are.


Oh - and double check the screen is pugged in and turned on.. (thats been responsible for more than one 'My screen is black' moments)..
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 10, 2012, 12:46:53 PM
Press F8 as it tries to boot, and select Start in Safe Mode - if it lets you. Then reboot once its all loaded. Tried this, nothing
OR

Depending on the machine, try to access the BIOS - turn the pc on, and press delete, or F2/F12 (again - depending on type). Haven't tried this, will do tonight
Then select Load BIOS defaults.  Could have forgotten where its disks are.


Oh - and double check the screen is pugged in and turned on.. (thats been responsible for more than one 'My screen is black' moments).. Checked, is connected. Screen only tells me alternating: Analog   Digital

See comments in red.
I have also loaded he Windows CD, started the machine: nothing.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Bird on December 10, 2012, 12:52:18 PM
So if your only getting digital/analoge flashing by, your not getting any start up screens/windows screen at all.. So its not gettign to the OS. Which could be  a motherboard issue.
If it was memory you'd get beeps.

The USB file dump thing has me thinking, but that shouldnt kill hardware

If you can get into the bios, find the reset to default.

Do you have another PC at home? EG: swap monitor keyboard mouse etc (all one at a time though)...
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: POD on December 10, 2012, 12:52:54 PM
Seems to be working fine on Myswag, I wouldn't worry about all of the other crap and just have a Myswag dedicated desk top!

POD - The Problem Fixer. . . . .

Thank you, come again. NEXT PLEASE!

Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: D4D on December 10, 2012, 01:02:16 PM
No beeps but fans could be a rail in the power supply has died. No video sync could be your video card is dead.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 10, 2012, 01:34:33 PM
Seems to be working fine on Myswag, I wouldn't worry about all of the other crap and just have a Myswag dedicated desk top!

POD - The Problem Fixer. . . . .

Thank you, come again. NEXT PLEASE!

Ssttt, tell nobody but I am typing this from work.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: KingBilly on December 10, 2012, 01:52:39 PM
I won't tell ......  if you don't  :angel:

KB
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Trex_s4m1 on December 10, 2012, 02:15:50 PM
ill put a dollar on it being the vid card. check that its mounted properly.
if the usb was plugged into the back you could have bumped the cable and dislodged the vid card. if you plugged it into the front.. well ignore my comment :D
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 10, 2012, 03:10:55 PM
ill put a dollar on it being the vid card. check that its mounted properly.
if the usb was plugged into the back you could have bumped the cable and dislodged the vid card. if you plugged it into the front.. well ignore my comment :D

I will ignore your comment.  ;D
I have opened up the housing, pulled the video card and inserted it back into its place.
No change.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Bird on December 10, 2012, 05:47:16 PM
Quote from: WilSurf
I will ignore your comment.  ;D
I have opened up the housing, pulled the video card and inserted it back into its place.
No change.

while the case was open, did you try and power it up? See what fans are turning?

I think its more likely power supply or mobo
but if fans were going, it aint powersupply.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Trex_s4m1 on December 10, 2012, 05:54:41 PM
yep im with lost.. ignore away :D  :cheers:
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 10, 2012, 06:20:09 PM
Lost, I did.
Both fans (in the back of the casing and on top of the motherboard) are spinning.
So power supply should be fine.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: D4D on December 10, 2012, 06:43:41 PM
Lost, I did.
Both fans (in the back of the casing and on top of the motherboard) are spinning.
So power supply should be fine.

Fans take 12V, could be the 5V rail that is stuffed. I had this exact issue about a month ago.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: xcvator on December 10, 2012, 08:36:33 PM
There are several steps you need to do here to isolate the problem

1/Turn on computer, and listen, do you get a single beep, if no, replace the bios battery and try again (bios will lose it's settings if the battery is flat ) if yes watch for any error messages and listen for any other beep sounds( make a note of number and length)

1/Try another known good video card ( $10-00 will do) if still the same

2/Try another known good monitor (while keeping known good video card installed)

3/Check if system lights and fans are on (if not motherboard is very suspect)

Try and get hold of a copy of Scott Mueller's book "upgrading and repairing pc's" borrow or steal it, don't even think about buying, I've got edition 14 from about 10 years ago when it cost about $170-00
cheers Keith
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Bird on December 10, 2012, 09:15:39 PM
There are several steps you need to do here to isolate the problem

1/Turn on computer, and listen, do you get a single beep, if no, replace the bios battery and try again (bios will lose it's settings if the battery is flat ) if yes watch for any error messages and listen for any other beep sounds( make a note of number and length)

1/Try another known good video card ( $10-00 will do) if still the same

2/Try another known good monitor (while keeping known good video card installed)

3/Check if system lights and fans are on (if not motherboard is very suspect)
hes already done all that..
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: xcvator on December 10, 2012, 09:41:03 PM
hes already done all that..
No he hasn't  :D
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 11, 2012, 10:07:28 AM
What I have done so far:

- start the pc --> nothing, only small light on front of casing, no mouse, no keyboard, no beep
- opened up the casing (removed dust). start the pc --> 2x fans running nothing else, only small light on front of casing, no mouse, no keyboard, no beep
- inserted the Windows 7 CD, start the pc --> nothing, only small light on front of casing, no mouse, no keyboard, no beep
- unplugged the power, removed the video card, removed the 3V battery, checked the voltage (over 3V), reinstalled battery, video card, power --> nothing, only small light on front of casing, no mouse, no keyboard, no beep
- unplugged the hardddrive, opened up a Dell computer I have lying around, connected the hard drive, started that pc --> beep, nothing else. Can't connect monitor a it is a different connector.
- tried the hard drive from the Dell pc in my normal pc --> nothing at all. But I might have had one small 4-pin connector on the motherboard still disconnected.

Tried delete, F2, F12 yesterday, but as I don't have keyboard function --> nothing
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Bird on December 11, 2012, 10:26:06 AM
its ****ed.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: xcvator on December 11, 2012, 10:34:23 AM
Does your old Dell computer work ok, if it does remove the video card from it and install the card in the computer that's playing up and try it, if that doesn't work try it in a different slot.If the Dell has a built in video chip just buy a cheap and nasty card and try that in a couple of slots.Still no joy, then it's probably the mb which is pretty easy to replace and cannabilise your old parts.
The usb stick and the pc playing up is probably just a coinsidence
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: D4D on December 11, 2012, 10:50:04 AM
Do you have a multimeter? Turn the PC on and measure the DC V at the power connector for the HDD, red should be +5V, yellow should be +12V, black is earth.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Chicky Babe on December 11, 2012, 02:12:09 PM
okay...so this might be completely random and don't shoot me if it sounds stupid as I am no computer guru, however...

I had a very very similar problem, it would try to boot and then the monitor would go black and say something about analogue/digital... I ended up moving the pc and monitor to another powerpoint in the house and it worked, booted up fine and got my screen back.  Took it back to the study and it wouldn't work. Still thought it was a power problem with my pc...

I took it to the pc shop and they said it needed upgrading and had a couple of issues so got those fixed, took it home, booted up fine for a few days then did it again!!!  Pulled the power point out and it was full of ants and the connections were eroded...new power point and it was good as gold!!!  Fortunately I needed the upgrade and glad I got some of the other issues fixed as it was buggin me!!

Like I said...may have absolutely nothing to do with it, but an electrician friend of mine came over and checked the voltage on my powerpoints and three of them had a reduction in voltage due to corrosion so he replaced 3 of them for me!!

Just an idea!!!
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 11, 2012, 03:24:05 PM
I will give it a try.
It doesn't any harm.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: noel_w on December 11, 2012, 03:43:27 PM
I have a very handy little gadget to test PC power supplies. I have attached a random link to one that is similar to mine. It has saved me $$ heaps of times as I "dabble" in IT. (24x7  :'( )
 
http://pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4081 (http://pccasegear.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=4081)
 
It will check your power supply to tell you if all outputs are close to spec.
 
 
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Geoffwin on December 11, 2012, 09:59:16 PM
Sounds like the m/b to me.

My suggestion would be to unplug and plug back in all things that can be unplugged (except cpu), so video card, mouse, keyboard, hard drive connections both on the hard drive and the motherboard. Memory modules.

I have had a similar issue caused by a faulty USB stick, luckily for me the stick fried and nothing else. Perhaps you were not so lucky.

Did you mention you tried the hard drive from the faulty machine in another machine?

It is very limiting of you cannot get into the bios and/or you cannot boot from the CD / DVD rom. This is also an indicator of a bad m/b.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: D4D on December 12, 2012, 05:42:57 AM
For the 5000th time check the power rails...
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 12, 2012, 10:09:36 AM
For the 5000th time check the power rails...

Where are these "power rails"?
Is it the 4-pin connection to the hard drive you are mentioning?
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: noel_w on December 12, 2012, 12:16:33 PM
A particular voltage coming out of a multi voltage power supply is generally referred to as a "power rail" .
The power supply tester I referred to above will test these "power rails"
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: D4D on December 12, 2012, 02:25:02 PM
Where are these "power rails"?
Is it the 4-pin connection to the hard drive you are mentioning?

Do you have a multimeter? Turn the PC on and measure the DC V at the power connector for the HDD, red should be +5V, yellow should be +12V, black is earth.

Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Bunyip on December 12, 2012, 02:41:50 PM
Wilsurf,

with the whole "world ending on the 21st" thing is it really worth putting in this much effort?  ;D

Sounds like a MB to me as well.

Bunyip
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Estelle on December 12, 2012, 03:31:26 PM

Did you make a note of the screen dump message. Usually comes up with an almost English message and a bundle of hexidecimal junk (about 10 digits) The first hexidecimal message is important.

Could be a memory problem. Turn it off and unplug the memory card(s) and reinsert them making sure you have physical skin contact with the chassis when touching the RAM.

Title: Computer gone.....
Post by: Marcus73 on December 12, 2012, 05:18:24 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but have you checked the power rails?
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: fuji on December 12, 2012, 05:46:26 PM
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but have you checked the power rails?



Multimeter?
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 12, 2012, 06:12:03 PM
It went to uick to see the message.

Yes, I have a multimeter.
Will see if I can measure voltage at the hard drive connector.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Bird on December 12, 2012, 08:04:22 PM
Just bin it and upgrade.

we dont build PC's for staff at home anymore, we send them to www.dell.com.au (http://www.dell.com.au)
their onsite warranty is worth it. EG: the Shit you are having now, they would have fixed it in 24hrs...  Been doing that for 3-4+ yrs now, never had a problem.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: noel_w on December 12, 2012, 09:01:46 PM
Just bin it and upgrade.

we dont build PC's for staff at home anymore, we send them to www.dell.com.au (http://www.dell.com.au)
their onsite warranty is worth it. EG: the **** you are having now, they would have fixed it in 24hrs...  Been doing that for 3-4+ yrs now, never had a problem.


Yep Dell just came out & changed 330 motherboards out of some Optiplex 990's we just installed. That would have cost them a couple of bob under warranty. It only took them 3 months to organise it. But they did do it.
You need to get a 3yr warranty and retire it at 3yrs. Don't try to get it fixed after that as it will cost a small fortune.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 13, 2012, 10:20:42 AM
I finally got hold of the person who built it for us.
He doesn't have his company anymore and don't do it.
He adviced me to go to a local computer shop.
I am not happy.

My previous HP pc running on ME is still in good shape after over 10 years.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Bunyip on December 13, 2012, 11:35:58 AM
HP pc running on ME is still in good shape

ME was never a good OS, I am amazed to hear it  ;D
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Bird on December 13, 2012, 11:39:25 AM
ME was never a good OS, I am amazed to hear it  ;D
x googolplex
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 13, 2012, 01:15:02 PM
I never had an issue with that machine.
I have done more reading and I think I have to follow up on D4D tomorrow and check the PSU.
Lot of failure are due to a defect in the power supply.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 18, 2012, 10:05:13 AM
OK, had the multimeter out yesterday.
It was a bit of a fiddle as the pins are tiny and the probe is slightly bigger.
What I found was:
- yellow: 12.6V
- black: -0V
- red: 0V

D4D said that red should be 5V?
That is only the connector to the DVD, but if the logic is correct then the 5V to the DVD is the same 5V to other components?
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: D4D on December 18, 2012, 10:08:29 AM
OK next step is check the red wires on the power supply connector on the motherboad. Sounds like your 5V rail is dead, new power supply time.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: booga on December 18, 2012, 10:12:16 AM
It's the power supply, dont bother testing just go and buy a 450w PSU roughly $150-200 problem solvered else take it to the shop and spend $500
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: MDSimpson on December 18, 2012, 10:30:23 AM
You can pickup 450W PSU for cheaper than that. Techbuy have them (450w) starting around $55.00 plus delivery. They are good most things in stock too.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 18, 2012, 10:38:59 AM
Does it matter which model to buy?
Do they all have the same power cables with connectors?
From memory I have an Antec VP450
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: D4D on December 18, 2012, 10:47:39 AM
Most likely it will be an ATX power supply, which is pretty standard.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: noel_w on December 18, 2012, 10:50:03 AM
From that testing showing no 5V rail then I would assume that it could be the Power Supply. PC shop should be able to swap one over for less than a hundred or you could get one & swap it over yourself. Just need to swap cable for cable. A reasonable quality PS is about $70-$100 for a 430 watt.
Newer model PS's have sata connectors whereas older style had molex to sata converters for your hard drives. They all have the same connectors, some just have more.
There will be two connectors to your motherboard (one large one and a smaller one that will have a connector somewhere near your processor), one each to your HDD's & DVD and possibly others to the case fans.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Estelle on December 18, 2012, 06:35:42 PM

Unfortunately, the 5V rail may be shut down by a failure on a daughter board or disk drive etc. Not as common as the Power Supply rolling over.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: D4D on December 18, 2012, 06:39:23 PM
Given it happened when a USB stick was inserted, pretty good chance the 5V rail is dead.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 18, 2012, 06:43:53 PM
What is the relation between both?
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: D4D on December 18, 2012, 06:56:21 PM
USB uses the 5V rail
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Estelle on December 18, 2012, 07:06:12 PM

I try not to jump to conclusions. Still do, but rarely with technical stuff.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: SteveandViv on December 19, 2012, 08:30:04 AM
Given it happened when a USB stick was inserted, pretty good chance the 5V rail is dead.

I'm with you. Some of the cheaper USB sticks have a bad regulation issue and draw to much. I've seen 3 this year at work.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 19, 2012, 09:47:28 AM
It was a cheap USB which I have been using for 3 years.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 21, 2012, 10:11:28 AM
Had another go yesterday with the multimeter and a paperclip.
Measured the 4-pin to the hard drive again and the 20-pin to the mobo.
All voltages are as they should be, only the 12V is a bit low: 11.6V
The other are all there: 3.3V, 5V and 0V.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Bird on December 21, 2012, 10:14:33 AM
could have been using your new computer by now ;)
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: D4D on December 21, 2012, 10:22:41 AM
Are you saying you now have 5V at the hard disk on the red wires?
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 21, 2012, 11:46:15 AM
Yep, I couldn't measure it correctly last time.

Lost, I am not willing to spent another $1000 within 2 years on a computer.
I am using the laptop although it is slow.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: D4D on December 21, 2012, 11:49:51 AM
OK then I'd take it to a PC shop
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: noel_w on December 21, 2012, 12:01:13 PM
Ditto
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Trex_s4m1 on December 23, 2012, 01:08:07 AM
I have a few spare pcs around the place.  Ill check em out tomorrow and repostO0
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: SteveandViv on December 23, 2012, 10:59:39 AM
Yep, I couldn't measure it correctly last time.

Lost, I am not willing to spent another $1000 within 2 years on a computer.
I am using the laptop although it is slow.

OK, I'll give you an old one for work (A Year Old). You just have to come and get it
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on December 23, 2012, 09:59:11 PM
Luckily I tested the harddrive in another computer.
All data is still there.
I have it copied to my external harddrive.
It is now less a problem, more an inconvenience.

However  still would like to have it done.
When we are back from holiday I look further into it.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: WilSurf on May 14, 2013, 10:10:20 AM
Finally, I dropped off the computer at a repair shop.
But I am not happy.
The motherboard was gone so they replaced it.
When starting up and running fr awhile it was shutting down again; CPU gone as well.
The repairshop reckons it has been a power surge.
So they are replacing the CPU as well, with a better one.
Sweet.

Now the not happy part.
They will replace the X2 260 chip what came out of it with a X2 270 chip.
Hang on, I bought the computer with a X4 640 chip.

So:
1. they messed up with the chip they took out of my computer
2. the guy who sold and built me the computer ripped me off.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Bird on May 14, 2013, 10:12:08 AM
Finally, I dropped off the computer at a repair shop.
But I am not happy.
The motherboard was gone so they replaced it.
When starting up and running fr awhile it was shutting down again; CPU gone as well.
The repairshop reckons it has been a power surge.
So they are replacing the CPU as well, with a better one.
Sweet.

Now the not happy part.
They will replace the X2 260 chip what came out of it with a X2 270 chip.
Hang on, I bought the computer with a X4 640 chip.

So:
1. they messed up with the chip they took out of my computer
2. the guy who sold and built me the computer ripped me off.
Somethign to be said for building your own..
or as we recommend to staff now here at work, buy a Dell... The home warranty is worth it for teh non computer person.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: noel_w on May 14, 2013, 10:30:17 AM
X2

Plus, make sure the warranty is long enough to cover how long you want to keep it for. If a Dell mobo dies then it is costly to replace out of warranty as they are usually not an off the shelf PC shop replacement.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: rocket327s on May 14, 2013, 03:44:28 PM
No one suggested the memory??? Maybe it sh*t itself.... maybe pull the sticks out & run them vigorously over an eraser to clean them?? Check them for damage.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: GraemeL on May 14, 2013, 03:55:11 PM
That was my first thought as well, memory.

Taking it to a PC repair shop is risky, if you know nothing about them, some can and will tell you anything to increase the dollar count.
It may very well turn out to be a bad memory stick, but they tell you they have to replace this and that, but only really replace the ram.
Title: Re: Computer gone.....
Post by: Jon on May 14, 2013, 07:51:35 PM
did you check the power supplies? ;)