MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: evolution on November 19, 2012, 07:15:06 PM
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G'day guys,
Long story short, my partner and I bought a boat and trailer from a guy in Brisbane.
I checked over the boat and did a once over the trailer before handing over the check.
My question is not what I should have done, but what to do now.
(I didn't have the time nor the tools to pull the hubs apart, and was assured that the trailer was serviced and good to go)
I did pull the bearing buddies off and check the grease, it was clean and new.
On the way back I stopped every once in a while and checked the hubs and they were warm but easily touchable. After 500km I hit a pot hole and one of the bearings grenades it's self.
No worries, call RACV, flat tray arranged and on its way home with a bill for the truck.
Too easy.
Get it home, pulled the hubs apart to get a feel for what I needed to do and when I pulled off the outer drum brake THERE WAS NO INTERNAL BRAKE COMPONANTS!!!!
now this boat is over the 1.5 ton mark and requires a braked trailer. As I have found out since, required a safety cert to be sold with rego.
There is no way this could have passed.
I'm now up for a $1500 bill to replace pretty much the entire setup on the trailer, and I'm out of pocket.
I have rung the bloke who sold it to me, he can't come to the party.
I have rung the insurance company, Its not an accident. according to them its from negligence. So not covered.
I was told that Queensland transport has a department that handles this sort of stuff, but I can't find the number. I have rung the police and although they were polite, I was politely told that it wasn't there responsibility.
Now to say I'm PI*#ED off would be an understatement! I had my One and a half year old and my pregnant partner in the car with me towing this DEATH TRAP!!
I honestly believe that if I had of been towing it with a commodore or a falcon I would have been involved in a serious accident coming down the ranges.
Yes I am relieved that no one was hurt and that it could have been a lot worse. It really isn't a HUGE sum of money in the long term, but on principle I can't wear this! I thought I would give this bloke a few days of benefit of the doubt but I'm over that now, I want his tennis balls on a platter!!!!!!! short of using a solicitor and spending more than the repairs of the trailer, does anyone know how this works in Queensland?
Who are the best people/department to phone?
OK rant over........
Cheers
Evo
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I have rung the bloke who sold it to me, he can't come to the party.
Horse Shit he cant... he has the cash for the boat...
I'd be seeking legal advice from the RACQ or NRMA etc.
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Most boat trailers use override hitches for brakes which pull on the handbrake cable to stop the trailer. What bits are you missing?
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Did you fill out registration transfer papers and have them signed by the seller also providing a rego label and certificate and a saftey cert with the registered numbers on it so you could fill out and sign the rego transferr.?
Jet :D
Edit- I just re-read your post , I'd hate to tell you but I think you bought an unregisterd boat and trailer as rego's are not transferrable between states ..and also you may have been towing an unregistered trailer all the way home ...lucky no accident. So like when I sold my camper to a myswagger on here I had to de-register it in QLD pay for a temp movment label for him so he could drive to VIC with Ins cover and then he had to re-register it in VIC and get a roadworthy/Blueslip done down there.
Difference is I new I had no requirement to provide a saftey cert so I replaced all wheel bearings and did a full check in any case and paid for the temp rego so he could get home as I was pocketting the refund from the QLD rego.
be carefull who you call as you might get fined for towing an unregisterd trailer through QLD/NSW/VIC and you can be fined from all 3 states.
This situation really sucks as the seller would have know he had to cancell the QLD rego ..
Jet :D
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The story from him is that His misses ran off with the cash "cough cough"
the trailer was hydraulic with the override in the drawbar.
The override was seized as it turns out, the hydraulic lines were full of crap, The shoes-cylinders and pretty much everything in the drum was missing.
I honestly didn't know they weren't working as the patrol pulled it up fine.
I have the rego papers and stickers, but as it turns out nothing from the queensland transport.
I have a receipt and the finance forms that he had to fill out, but as it was the first time I had bought a boat in queensland I was honestly more concerned with what I needed from them for Vic roads.
Chalk that one up to a rookie mistake.
And irony of IRONY the boat was located on bribie island.
Cheers
Evo
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Did you fill out registration transfer papers and have them signed by the seller also providing a rego label and certificate and a saftey cert with the registered numbers on it so you could fill out and sign the rego transferr.?
Jet :D
What he said. But this off the TMR website: It is the vehicle owner's responsibility to ensure the vehicle is safe.
Kit_e
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It may help to talk to a Transport Inspector.
http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Road-safety/Transport-Inspectors.aspx (http://www.tmr.qld.gov.au/Safety/Road-safety/Transport-Inspectors.aspx)
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see my edit in my first post ..I think your on your own unfortunatley.
Sorry
Jet ;D
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if the bloke was that much of a scrote that there wer NO brake internals, and he knew you were driving 3000klms home, I'd be terrified now that theres money owing on it too
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I'd be worried about what else is wrong with it..
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I'd be worried about what else is wrong with it..
It's a boat trailer ... can there be anything else that could go wrong with it ... apart from the hitch coming loose and the wheels falling off? I'd be much more worried about the boat itself. ;D
Kit_e
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Hey Jet,
From what I understood, you could still sell it registered, but must provide a safety cert. When transferring ownership details to vicroads, then it needs to be cancelled and re registered.
attached is the photo of what was left of the hub assembly.
Cheers
Evo
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Unless their different the papers for a boat when i picked up my CT from Qld it was ok to bring it back to NSW with the current QLD rego on it plus plates we just made sure we got the rego papers of him checked the vins etc from papers to the CT plate did a securites check on the day and got a receipt then drove home ,did a blue slip,handed plates in and received a plate surrender certificate.You dont have to deregister before you bring back ,he wanted to do that but didnt want to pay $29 a day for permit so i could drive back.
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Hey Jet,
From what I understood, you could still sell it registered, but must provide a safety cert. When transferring ownership details to vicroads, then it needs to be cancelled and re registered.
thats within Victoria. you bought from Qld.
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if the bloke was that much of a scrote that there wer NO brake internals, and he knew you were driving 3000klms home, I'd be terrified now that theres money owing on it too
Yes especially if you didnt do a Securites Register Check $3.70,in QLD .And for others reading who may purchase from QLD make sure you do that check on the day of purchase as its a legal document that covers you but only on the day of purchase and they are open on Sat and Sun so you can check as well.
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thats within Victoria. you bought from Qld.
and then from the VICroads website
"If you are moving to Victoria permanently, or have brought a vehicle with interstate registration, you will need to register it in Victoria. If you have an interstate driver licence, you will also need to change it over to a Victorian licence once you have been living here for more than three months.
What you need to do
To register your interstate registered vehicle in Victoria you will need to make an appointment and attend a VicRoads Customer Service Centre. To make an appointment, call 13 11 71 (Mon-Fri 8.30am - 5pm, Sat 8.30am - 2pm) with the following information:
the VIN and engine number of your vehicle
the registration number of the vehicle
your current licence number.
You will also need to pay an appointment fee.
In most situations, as long as the interstate vehicle registration is current and is going into the same name in Victoria, a certificate of roadworthiness (RWC) will not be required to register your vehicle in Victoria. However, you will need to make an appointment at a VicRoads Customer Service Centre to have the vehicle registered.
There will be other situations where a certificate of roadworthiness will be required to have your vehicle registered in Victoria. Call us on 13 11 71 to check when you will require to supply a RWC."
So what I read from that is he was covered with the rego of a vehicle or trailer purchased from interstate he would just need to provide Vicroads with a roadworthy, I dont know if they would accept a Queensland one (cant see why they wouldn't). IMO as long as the rego wasn't cancelled then he was towing a registered trailer that should not have passed a roadworthy. The relevant parts are in bold.
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, I dont know if they would accept a Queensland one (cant see why they wouldn't)
they didnt in the past.. same as Engineers Certs from some states are not interchangeable.
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they didnt in the past.. same as Engineers Certs from some states are not interchangeable.
I guess my post was more in reply to Jetcrew as he stated the tailer was unregistered and had been towed back to Vic in an unregistered condition, which in my opinion is wrong as evolution makes no reference to the trailer being deregistered. As for the RWC I really dont know the answer to the interchangeability from state to state.
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I guess my post was more in reply to Jetcrew as he stated the tailer was unregistered and had been towed back to Vic in an unregistered condition, which in my opinion is wrong as evolution makes no reference to the trailer being deregistered. As for the RWC I really dont know the answer to the interchangeability from state to state.
The only legal way to sell a trailer /car /camper in QLD WITHOUT A SAFTEY CERT IS UNREGISTERED.. so as far the insurance underwritter for the public liabilty and the dept of transport qld would be concearned the vehical /trailer was unregistered at the point of sale ..because if it was a registered sale a roadworthy cert and rego tsfr papers would have been compleated.
There have been cases in qld just like this and accidents have happened and it's not pretty ..forgett tickets etc it's injury insurance that can ruin you personally.
If you are from any other state and wish to buy from Qld don't drive it home with QLD plates you will have no public liabilty ins if the sale has occoured. Pay the $28 per day and then you are covered by a seperate underwritting for liabilty untill you get it home. you nominate the exact address on the form and must travel the most direct route. The only time the public liabilty is continued is with signed tsfr forms and a roadworthy.
He has committed an offence by not removing the plates , but by reporting him you kind of put yourself in it to. Him not supplying a roadworthy and giving the trailer to you in that cond is not an offence in QLd unfortunatley >:D >:D ,because of the type of sale you transacted.
It is buyer beware in QLD
jet :D :D
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if the bloke was that much of a scrote that there wer NO brake internals, and he knew you were driving 3000klms home, I'd be terrified now that theres money owing on it too
That much is covered, the finance company checked all that no encombance.
I have had the boat checked, all is good with the boat side of things.
Cheers though
Evo
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The only legal way to sell a trailer /car /camper in QLD WITHOUT A SAFTEY CERT IS UNREGISTERED.. so as far the insurance underwritter for the public liabilty and the dept of transport qld would be concearned the vehical /trailer was unregistered at the point of sale ..because if it was a registered sale a roadworthy cert and rego tsfr papers would have been compleated.
There have been cases in qld just like this and accidents have happened and it's not pretty ..forgett tickets etc it's injury insurance that can ruin you personally.
If you are from any other state and wish to buy from Qld don't drive it home with QLD plates you will have no public liabilty ins if the sale has occoured. Pay the $28 per day and then you are covered by a seperate underwritting for liabilty untill you get it home. you nominate the exact address on the form and must travel the most direct route. The only time the public liabilty is continued is with signed tsfr forms and a roadworthy.
He has committed an offence by not removing the plates , but by reporting him you kind of put yourself in it to. Him not supplying a roadworthy and giving the trailer to you in that cond is not an offence in QLd unfortunatley >:D >:D ,because of the type of sale you transacted.
It is buyer beware in QLD
jet :D :D
I Understand what your saying mate, I was only going off what the local plod said to me. Apparently He is liable as its the sellers responsibility to ensure that the terms of sale are met.
I Will ring the Queensland inspectors and hopefully they can shed some light onto it for me.
The whole thing that gets to me is with all the kerfuffle with the finance company I missed something. Normally Im on top of these things. Ill put that down to new-boatitis I think.
I understand he committed an offence by either
A)not removing the plates and selling unregistered
B)not supplying the safety certificate with sale.
I only just found out then that you can't even advertise a vehicle/heavy trailer for sale with out a valid safety cert if you are selling it with rego.
Man hind-site is a pain in the proverbial and I really hate to be that person having a whine!
I dunno I really feel screwed on this and although consequentially its not huge in the long term the whole underlying safety factor is what got me.
I will update you all tomorrow when I phone around in Queensland.
Cheers
Evo
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Someone should Phone the QLD Motor Transport or whatever they call themselves and tell them they are full of sh...t as i made numerous phone calls to them and specifically asked them can i drive a registered CT back to NSW with the plates etc on it and they all said yes no worries people do it all the time just when you get back hand the plates in and get a certificate of surrender and our RTA will send the plates back or destroy.Dont have to get a permit to drive transfer from one adress to another.Thats the trouble these days you do all the checks and phone calls and there is a thousand different stories the sooner they bring a national system into place the better
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How is it any different to a Qld resident towing their CT in other states whilst on holidays?
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Correct me if I'm wrong but you don't need roadworthy's every 12 months in QLD so you must supply one if you sell your item, it can still carry QLD rego but must have a roadworthy, and you have 3 months in which to reregister in your home state.
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Correct me if I'm wrong but you don't need roadworthy's every 12 months in QLD so you must supply one if you sell your item, it can still carry QLD rego but must have a roadworthy, and you have 3 months in which to reregister in your home state.
Nope! Just one for sale if still registered. If unregistered, well that's AS IS / WHERE IS and you'd have to trailer it home unless you got a day pass (tech term?) to move it from A --> B which is usually from home to where ever you are getting the roadworthy.
Kit_e
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Ok, Update time.
I have phoned Queensland transport, office of fair trading and also the transport inspectors.
The outcome is even though I didn't get a safety cert Im in the clear. The following offences were committed and there is no two ways about it.
The boat was advertised including the trailer both registered with out a current safety certificate. Offence no 1
The trailer was sold with registration with out a safety certificate. Offence no 3
The trailer was sold in a dangerous condition, be it knowingly or unknowingly and put motorists at risk through negligence on their behalf. Offence no 3
The outcome is the Queensland transport inspectors are now investigating and once proven possible criminal charges can be laid, including fines and at an extreme possible jail sentences. (???)
The office of fair trading are investigating and advised me that I am entitled to the following:
1) return both boat and trailer for full refund with all costs to be incurred by the seller.
2) Return the trailer for a suitable replacement (like for like) in acceptable condition supplied with a safety certificate.
3) Seller to pay all reasonable repair costs.
The only costs I have asked from the seller is for the replacement parts. (like for like) I have not asked for any labour charges or for any costs incurred by me for transport.
I believe that was a reasonable request and according to the office of fair trading would have been the easiest outcome.
If it is disputed through the office of fair trading it can go to tribunal, I will also more than likely be awarded costs plus compensation.
I don't understand why something so simple can be dragged out to where the government needs to be involved.
Anyway this will be a LOOOOONG process and I will keep everyone updated.
Cheers
Evo
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Ok, Update time.
The outcome is even though I didn't get a safety cert Im in the clear. The following offences were committed and there is no two ways about it.
:cup:
Good Luck with it all.
Kit_e
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Top outcome mate :cup: :cup: :cup:
He made his mistake/deception by advertising as registered.. thats the key point .
Had he not, he would have prob only been guilty of being a less than desirable citizen >:D , now you,ve got him... make sure you keep the ad where it is advertised as registered and the plates ect to prove your point.
Good to see the QLD Transport supporting you :cup: You don't live here and know all the regs ..but he did.
Hope it does not take to much to get your $$$ back .
Now how about a pic of your new boat after all this. ;D ;D ;D
Jet :D
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Well done Evo
Evo
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Hey evo, good to see something came from your investigations! You had a good run with your new 4wd then this!! I'll be home soon to hound you regarding the stereo in the new hilux!
Cheer
Strvy
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Top outcome mate :cup: :cup: :cup:
He made his mistake/deception by advertising as registered.. thats the key point .
Had he not, he would have prob only been guilty of being a less than desirable citizen >:D , now you,ve got him... make sure you keep the ad where it is advertised as registered and the plates ect to prove your point.
Good to see the QLD Transport supporting you :cup: You don't live here and know all the regs ..but he did.
Hope it does not take to much to get your $$$ back .
Now how about a pic of your new boat after all this. ;D ;D ;D
Jet :D
Hey Jet,
Honestly they were brilliant. Very helpful and filled me in with what I didn't know. But we are expecting this to take a few months to get reimbursed.
I have printed the adds and scaned them. Saved to the hard drive and sky drive, so they aren't going anywhere. ;D
Attached is the photo for advertisement, it currently has the tower off but I will grab one of it how it is now to show my paint (roller :cup: ) job on the trailer.
Cheers
Evo
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Well done Evo
Evo
Cheers Evo,
Im not normally one to go this far with things as I think Im a reasonably nice guy. But I gave the seller a fair chance I think.
Cheers
Evo
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:cup:
Good Luck with it all.
Kit_e
Thanks Kit_e :D
Cheers
Evo
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Hey evo, good to see something came from your investigations! You had a good run with your new 4wd then this!! I'll be home soon to hound you regarding the stereo in the new hilux!
Cheer
Strvy
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Hey Mrvn,
I know, its pretty much my luck to be honest. But as it goes overall I am happy with the boat........ well I will be when I can put it in the water instead of using it as a giant yard ornament. :laugh:
Hmmmm I wonder If I can fit it in the poooooollllll???????????????
Mate hound away. I don't mind helping anyone out. Ive said it once and I'll say it again. Karma is what makes the world go around. ;D
I have a few others that I am sorting out for some other great people I know and should have that sorted by the end of the week.
I'll Pm you the latest update too.
Cheers
Evo
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Mate I am sorry, I can see a problem with your boat. How the hell are you going to fish out of it? :)
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Attached is a photo of how it sits at the moment.
Cheers
Evo
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Mate I am sorry, I can see a problem with your boat. How the hell are you going to fish out of it? :)
EASY problem to fix, it has a solid fiberglass floor, no carpet.
As I never catch anything anyway...... It should still stay nice and shiny when I throw a line out the side ;D
Orrrrrr I can take it out into the ocean with someone on a tube and flick them around enough that they look like a drunk seal and hopefully catch some "flake" haha
Cheers
Evo
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Thats is flash as mate :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
Very very nice indeeed
Jet :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
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Thats is flash as mate :cup: :cup: :cup: :cup:
Very very nice indeeed
Jet :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
Cheers mate, if your ever down this way let me know and we can go for a spin. ;D
Cheers
Evo
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Good outcome, hope it doesn't take too long to get finalised for you.
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Good outcome, hope it doesn't take too long to get finalised for you.
thanks mate, it was actually Raym who gave me the head start with the Transport inspectors. To be honest I didn't even know they did that sort of thing. I always thought they were around for the trucks and so forth.
Cheers
Evo
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Cheers mate, if your ever down this way let me know and we can go for a spin. ;D
Cheers
Evo
Sure will mate ..I'll feel like royalty, crusing around in that .. 8) 8) not bringing the Mrs though or i'll never get here in my tinny again ;D ;D
Jet ;D
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Hey jet,
Nothing wrong with a tinny. i love cruising out with the old man for a bit of fishing in his tinny. Although there is a little more room in mine, so when you reach into the inbuilt esky for a can of drink
the boat doesn't tip.
The down side, when I eventually finish the camper if we want to take both it requires two cars......
Ok didn't think that one through very well. maybe i'll buy a tent for the boat trips haha
Cheers
Evo