MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: mrdenn1s on September 08, 2012, 07:21:01 PM
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Just curious what the reasons might be?
Easier to drive....no
Easier to use off road....no
Wife can use it......no
I was actually thinking of putting this in the electrical section as I believe that is where all good Shitfights belong
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because my (wifes) auto petrol Prado has crap engine braking! Other than that it's a pleasure but boring. The old manual V6 Triton though is fun to drive >:D
Mark.
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My wife hates driving autos. My car is manual cause that was how it was.
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Simply put a Manual is a lot more fun to drive then a auto, esp off road
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l am secure in the knowledge that l know when its time to change gears . BUT if you not up to really drive a real gearbox or know how to do & still want to get out there beyond the RACV ( or who ever ) . Oh can you start an auto with a flat battery in the bush ??? ??? ???
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Because automatics are for girls :cheers:
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better engine braking
cheaper to repair
cheaper to service
no overheating issues when towing
can push start
less brake wear
Wife prefers manuals (so do I)
:cheers: Brett
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Just curious what the reasons might be?
Easier to drive....no
Easier to use off road....no
Wife can use it......no
I was actually thinking of putting this in the electrical section as I believe that is where all good ****fights belong
Easier to roll start .... yes
Cheaper to run.... yes
Cheaper to buy.... yes
Stronger gearbox.... yes
My wife can drive it.... yes
Easier to fix.... yes
More reliable.... yes
Struggling to see what the argument is here.
Oh yeah, 70 series cruisers don't come in automatic.
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I would buy a manual because it keeps me engaged in the driving process therefore i keep concentration better.
Aside from that I love the driving experience.
LB drives manual just as well as anyone i know.
Bunyip
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Sounds like not many of you have driven an auto lately...
manual cheaper- not with a dual mass flywheel
engine braking - on par in a diesel and/or use DAC
stonger gearbox - maybe against the old 3 speed auto
more reliable - how many autos go bang these days compared to clutches
oh and it leaves a hand free for other things...
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Manuals are cheaper to buy and service. Yes dual mass flywheels are expensive but you don't tend to break them unless you drive a Nissan.
I agree there isn't any real difference in engine braking.
Manuals are stronger, fewer parts also mean more reliable.
Manuals also don't tend to overheat while towing or driving through soft sand.
Again it is one of those personal preference things, we could argue about it for years and not actually come up with an outcome.
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I have a choice of auto's to drive as we have sold all our manuals.
I miss manual, it was fun to drive.
Please don"t tell me what you do with your spare hand :D
Bunyip
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Can't stall start an auto...... ;D
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Won't knock an auto (ya big girl). ;D
Prefer to swap my own cogs.
To each his own.
My own is that I'm a tighta@#$ where cheaper is better - partly why I drive a petrol as well.
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Can't stall start an auto...... ;D
You don't need to...
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Sounds like not many of you have driven an auto lately...
manual cheaper- not with a dual mass flywheel
engine braking - on par in a diesel and/or use DAC
stonger gearbox - maybe against the old 3 speed auto
more reliable - how many autos go bang these days compared to clutches
oh and it leaves a hand free for other things...
oh and it leaves a hand free for other things..
I prefer to wait until I'm alone for that or I ask my wife for help ;D
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My wife loves the manual ( Land cruiser)and its her shopping trolly during the week, I personally drive an auto for work as the RTV is rated as stronger for towing the work trailer
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D4D has it pretty right, except for the part about reliability which should be brand qualified. Most of the members on this forum appear to drive patrols or utes, so their statements would be true when looking at the auto options available for those styles of vehicles. However, if you want a wagon then the auto is a far better option. In the case of Discovery or Cruiser 200 there is no manual option. If they have a transmission oil cooler fitted and are serviced properly should be no problem ( unless it's made by Jeep)
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Had a auto 4wd for 7 years. Time for a change, love the six speed manual !
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Manuals are cheaper to buy and service. Yes dual mass flywheels are expensive but you don't tend to break them unless you drive a 3.0L Nissan.
.......fixed it for ya, Symon......... ;D
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Can't stall start an auto...... ;D
.....or a TD42T....(well, you'd have to be pretty thick if you did)....... ;D
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Manuals are also safer.
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I've owned two 4wd's, both manuals. Love the 80 1hd-t as a manual ;D
I've owned auto's in my street cars, stall converters and shift kits. ;D
Auto's have come a long way over the years, I guess coupled with traction control an auto would go just as far into a bog, maybe even deeper than a manual would.
:cheers:
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Because real men love the feeling of a knob in their hand ;D
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Because real men love the feeling of a knob in their hand ;D
You can't argue with that ;D
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My wife drives a manual GQ patrol and loves it doesn't want an auto. As a matter of fact she's pulled our Hino truck out a couple of times of late when I've been bogged on a site.
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Yes dual mass flywheels are expensive but you don't tend to break them unless you drive a Nissan.
And when that happens, you do what I'll be doing...
Getting a proper setup put in, which is cheaper, stronger and longer wearing ;)
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Can you roll start a Manual Diesel?
If it is a modern one with a dead flat battery I would think not.
My reason is it has an electrical fuel cut of solenoid so no power no fuel.
The older mechanical injector pump (60series cruiser) you could remove the are from the edic motor and then start them.
Not sure when this changed. I think the 80 is the same but not the 100 onwards.
Nissans were harder to do but it was possible.
I have an Auto but would also have a Manual if it was available at the time.
Regards
Crisp Image
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Can you roll start a Manual Diesel?
If it is a modern one with a dead flat battery I would think not.
Doesn't matter if you have a diesel or a petrol, if you have a dead flat battery you won't be able to roll start it. You need a certain amount of voltage to run fuel pumps, ignition circuits, etc...
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My reason is it has an electrical fuel cut of solenoid so no power no fuel.
The older mechanical injector pump (60series cruiser) you could remove the are from the edic motor and then start them.
I've pushed started my old 91 1HD-T manual a couple of times when the battery as been cactus.
Even tho it is an effort to get them rolling, I done it ;D
:cheers:
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I much prefer the way the new generation autos and turbo diesels go together. :cheers:
And an auto off road is sweeeeeet!
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I much prefer the way the new generation autos and turbo diesels go together. :cheers:
(http://www.andrew.cmu.edu/user/brenda/Sites/_Media/applause_large.jpeg)
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Maybe I'm showing my age but I enjoyed manuals when I was younger and kept losing my licence and annoying everyone else with a loud exhaust, but I have now fallen in love with the auto, great in the sand where I usually drive.
I don't have any facts to back up my choice it's just better to drive.
Regards
Geoff
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Auto's are NOT only for girls.... >:D
I love manuals but after a back injury I have trouble with the nerves to my left leg and have at times been stuck in the car as I couldn't get out because of the back pain..
I can drive a manual on the good days but I can drive an auto every day.. ;D
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Is it true that the auto gearbox VW Amarok utes do not have Low-Range?
That's when I'd buy a Manual..
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"Wife can use it......no"
What?!?
Why get a licence, if you can't drive a manual if or when the occasion should call for it?
I love driving manual cars....... never having owned an auto before or after I met Symon (Big Sparks Are Us)
Both of our cars are manual and diesel..... and a lot of fun to drive. :cheers:
Unless it is a work / company vehicle, auto vehicles have no place in our yard... :laugh:
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I'd be worried driving a auto after driving manual for so long, would probably try a put it in reverse on the go.
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"Wife can use it......no"
What?!?
Why get a licence, if you can't drive a manual if or when the occasion should call for it?
I love driving manual cars....... never having owned an auto before or after I met Symon (Big Sparks Are Us)
Both of our cars are manual and diesel..... and a lot of fun to drive. :cheers:
Unless it is a work / company vehicle, auto vehicles have no place in our yard... :laugh:
And that is why I married you dear :)
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Because automatics are for girls :cheers:
I'm a girl. My first car was an auto, but since then I've been manual the whole way! ;D
Kit_e
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Is there any one out there that can pull apart an auto transmission or manual gear box and put back together without a manual, and know all the clearances and settings . "Why would any one buy a manual ?" so we can pull things apart and put them back together.
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I started driving 4x4s 30 years ago when no-one fitted an auto box in a working 4by. When I bought my first one 9 years ago I specifically went for a manual diesel option because that was what I was used to and knew how to drive in difficult off-road conditions (steep hill descents, stall starts, etc). I still drive a diesel manual, but I am not as committed to the manual as I was because automatic transmissions have improved considerably in recent years together with all the electronics that now give descent control and other features.
However I am wary of the fact that all these features rely on computers and various sensors and transducers to make them work: for an extended trip well away from civilisation I would still prefer an older manual diesel 4x4 with minimal things to go wrong - a non-turbo diesel engine with mechanical injection may be low on power and fuel efficiency compared to a modern turbo but coupled with a manual gearbox there is very little to go wrong and anything that does can be easily fixed.
With regard to gearbox strength, I found it interesting that when my wife bought a 2010 CDTi Astra, the manual version came with a 110kW engine but the auto only had 88kW - was that just because GM didn't want the cost of putting in a 6-speed auto strong enough to match the 6-speed manual?
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I also believed that the only good 4x4's were manuals but pretty much all the 80 Series autos were really good offroad (I wish I new that at the time)... However my manual is making some strange noises and just about everyone including a very trust worthy mechanic said get a auto you will never regret it...
So that is what I have done I bought a automatic (a hydraulic one at that) so no electronics... I will also fit a Nomad or Extreme Valve Body to help improve the transmission...
My 80 now days will be used manly for towing the CT and getting me back and forth from work so a auto suits me better and with the added power of the high flow turbo, 3" exhaust and intercooler this auto should go pretty well...
The cost for this change over is less that a manual gearbox rebuild and the only down side is that I may still end up having to rebuild this gearbox, but it may last a lifetime or not... and I have factored in that cost anyway....
I am just so over clutches making this "nice for a change".... I have had my 1991 HDJ80 for 12 years and won't be selling it as there is nothing out there better IMO - Besides it would have to be able to run B100 and this can and does so extremely well....
(https://dl.dropbox.com/u/86496483/Auto%20Conversion%20Pics/AutoBox2.jpg)
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So many of these arguments go back to what used to be the best, and for sure there was once a time when having to get an auto to satisfy one's wife was a real sacrifice. However, the auto boxes of today barely resemble those old, power sucking, three speed slush boxes. Many drivers of modern Porsches and Ferraris can only achieve 400m times using the auto and launch control, because the system is so much much better and faster than they are at changing gears for instance.
It has been shown time after time that modern 4wd autos are superior to manual in most circumstances, the glaring exception being a lack of engine braking which has been addressed by the fitment of descent control to many models these days.
As for what you like, that is different from what is best. There are plenty of folks who still love the old MG B. In a large, powerful modern vehicle I choose the auto option every time. If I was buying an STI Impreza, then I'd go for a stick, because I agree that is the fun option.
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It only came in a manual
GG
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Auto's are great, gear selection a lot easier, most times just let the auto select what it wants
and no worries about stalling the motor. Water crossings no problem with water in the clutch
or mud for that matter.
Magic on ring road at peak hour.
Have done over 200000 clicks and auto still performing faultlessly, no replaced clutches or
notchy gear box.
As for ease of repair, as I look after the auto and don't abuse it, change the fluid and filter as
required hopefully won't ever have to worry about that.
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Manuals are also safer.
Sorry the safety manager in me is now curious can you please elaborate on the above???
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My wife and I both prefer driving manuals but they seems harder and harder to come by.
We not long ago had to retire our 80 series Landcruiser (the mechanic could only make it comfortable), so we decided to get a diesel Prado. We searched and searched only to find that most are auto. I figure its due to all the mums who only use it to drop the kids at school (no offence to anyone).
We finally found a manual, but they are not very common these days.
Richard
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Why would anyone buy a manual?
Pretty simple really... I like changing gears.
In some situations it would be easier in an auto but I like the added challenge of changing gears.
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We've always owned manual cars except for the 3 V6 commodores we had
I've always been a manual driver and heel toe on the shifts
At present giving daughter no 1 lessons, she's getting a little down at the heel because too many of her friends are progressing with getting licences but they are going for auto only.
So we're going for a good country drive this weekend to Festers at Minden for some parts and hopefully the bakery across the road will be open to sell us some cream apple turnovers!!
Might make her feel better about things
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Having driven for close to 40 years, mostly manual cars and 3 x manual 4wds, my Cruiser is the 1st auto 4wd, and probably only the 3rd auto in my life. I also happen to have a heavy articulated licence.
Boy do I love the auto Cruiser. Stop start traffic is a breeze, off reading is a breeze. Yes it's got computers and relies on electronics. Perhaps they're the weak link. But even a manual has a weak link.
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Boy do I love the auto Cruiser. Stop start traffic is a breeze, off reading is a breeze. Yes it's got computers and relies on electronics. Perhaps they're the weak link. But even a manual has a weak link.
All vehicles these days rely heavily on electronics: in most cases the electronics are reliable and no cause for concern but the days of being able to fix breakdowns at the side of the road with some fencing wire and a roll of duct tape are long gone.
I much prefer an auto in city traffic, but outside the cities you need to change gear so infrequently that there is really little difference between the two, so for off-road driving it comes down to personal preference and I like to be able to descend steep hills without relying on the brakes. Having said that, my next 4x4 may well be an auto.
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Why would anyone buy a manual?
Pretty simple really... I like changing gears.
In some situations it would be easier in an auto but I like the added challenge of changing gears.
What is the challenge in changing gears?
I'd hazard a guess that most who are dissing the autos haven't driven a modern 4wd with an auto whilst offroad.
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After 2 manuals, I'm now in an auto. I won't go back.
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What is the challenge in changing gears?
I'd hazard a guess that most who are dissing the autos haven't driven a modern 4wd with an auto whilst offroad.
I'd hazard a guess that those who say this aren't - getting why some of us still like driving a manual. It's not a challenge >:D, it's just fun to - 'drive the car' while some like to cruise in their car, nothing wrong with that as is nothing wrong with me preferring to change from first to second or holding it back in second as I come to an intersection with the revs at 5k RPM. Your missing - our point.
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What is the challenge in changing gears?
I'd hazard a guess that most who are dissing the autos haven't driven a modern 4wd with an auto whilst offroad.
You guessed wrong. I have driven several newer autos offroad and I still like my manual.
Its a personal preference.
Sent from my HTC Sensation Z710a using Tapatalk 2
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I'd hazard a guess that those who say this aren't - getting why some of us still like driving a manual. It's not a challenge >:D, it's just fun to - 'drive the car' while some like to cruise in their car, nothing wrong with that as is nothing wrong with me preferring to change from first to second or holding it back in second as I come to an intersection with the revs at 5k RPM. Your missing - our point.
I didn't state my preference, which is manual for many occasions, but an auto matched with a sweet engine and appropriate gearing is also a hell of a lot of fun to drive. Just didn't get what was challenging about changing gears
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Maybe it comes down to whether you just want to get where your going, or if the "getting there" is part of the trip. Used to drive old school clunky 4sp manuals and LOVED it, but having now driven and owned 2 modern autos could never go back as per other comments in this thread. Maybe it comes to age also, was in the 20's when loved the manual, now fast approaching 40 so who knows.
There is no answer to this, but provided its looked after the auto is far easier (not necessarily "better") to drive when towing, but agree that a manual is stacks of fun un-hitched, especially off road. Sorry to buy in twice to this thread, but it's quite interesting reading and makes for great camp fire debate.
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I didn't state my preference, which is manual for many occasions, but an auto matched with a sweet engine and appropriate gearing is also a hell of a lot of fun to drive. Just didn't get what was challenging about changing gears
Yep, you said that - no worries, I agree and then you said I'd hazard a guess that most who are dissing ( what ever that means) the autos haven't driven a modern 4wd with an auto whilst offroad.
And I said - what I said...
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For the record, if my wife could drive one and the challenger turbo lag wasnt so profound, i would have one also
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Just got my first auto
Really enjoying it, super easy to back into camp or line up the camper to hook up
Easier to drive on the sand, easier to negotiate rough terrain
I think I'll enjoy going for a drive in a manual every now and then but for now ......................
auto auto auto auto auto
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The choice is easy when the coice of vehicle only comes with one style of gearbox.
200's are auto only!
However, as far as this argument /discussion is going. the auto option was the only one I had for the main vehicle. See my wife can not "feel" a car. no matter how hard I try and tell her that an engine is labouring or is in the incorrect gear she just does not "feel" it. She has been taught to drive a certain way, 5th gear 80k/h, 4th gear 50k/h etc, etc and now amount of unteaching sdo far has proved successful. therefore if I want her to be able to tow the camper on long drives and not have to replace turbos every 5000ks, then I have to take the gear decision away from her. She never towed either camper with the trol.
I was an auto sceptic, now I have the 200, there has been a few occasions that the 200 has got over an obstacle that I do not think the trol would of, due to being able to go slower. I was concerned about downhill engine braking, and in all honestly in high range, engine braking is poo, however, switch over to low range and in low first it would be as good as the trol was........even better if hill descent button is pressed.
Having said that, my car (200) is an auto, her car (korean poo box) is a manual and as gutless as it is, it is a lot of fun to drive.......have both, best of both worlds!
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Aren't most autos now triptronic anyway, so they are just as easy as a manual if you feel the need to be in total control of up shifts and down shifts of gears ???
I guess some people simply like to keep their left leg busy during a trip ;D
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Aren't most autos now triptronic anyway, so they are just as easy as a manual if you feel the need to be in total control of up shifts and down shifts of gears ???
I guess some people simply like to keep their left leg busy during a trip ;D
not just my left leg ;D 8)
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The cruiser is Auto and have driven manuals for years but the auto is great. The lancer I have is auto with padels near the steering wheel so I can also use it as a manual also.
I do not need to have my hand on a knob ;D ;D
Mark
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The choice is easy when the coice of vehicle only comes with one style of gearbox.
200's are auto only!
There are two reasons for this:
1. There was little demad for manual gearboxes
2. The new autos are so good the manufacturer believes this is the best option
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Just to expand on my choices
My Mini clubman with worked engine was a manual and was a joy to drive because of this
Had a Mini K auto, urge
2.4 petrol Hilux manual was boring
Sierra, manual was great fun and needed to be manual to utilise the high revving engine. Once I installed 100:1 gearing an auto would have been a much better choice for extreme offroad work, more control
V8 Valiant with auto, perfect combo, lazy V8 with heaps of torque, perfect cruising car
4.2 non turbo diesel GU manual which is needed to ensure I'm always in the power band
3.6 Jackaroo petrol auto. Nice match of engine and box, bit thirsty, but nice civilized family 4wd
So I guess it's horses for courses for me
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Aren't most autos now triptronic anyway, so they are just as easy as a manual if you feel the need to be in total control of up shifts and down shifts of gears ???
I hate "triptronic" autos. If I tell the box to change gears, I want it to change gears now - not 4 seconds later ;D
I prefer manuals, I just feel a bit more engaged in actually driving the car, not just steering it.
Also I hang onto my cars for a long time and the trend for most autoboxes are sealed for life - no dipstick to check oil level, no oil changes just run them till destruction :-[ I cant see some of the modern autos lasting as long as the simple old manual - but happy to be proven wrong :laugh:
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Lets face it, any energy used to depress a clutch or pull a stick shift is just wasted energy.
You only get (IMO) a set number of breaths in this life and wasting them is just wasting energy, so put that energy towards drinking beer or having sex or if ya really energetic, have a beer while throwing ya missus a bone.
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Because I'm a man that likes to be in control :cup: and I can multi-task :cheers:
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Just like sex really. You can either do it your self or sit back and let some one else have a go...I know where I'd rather be. ;D ;D ;D Yes it was joke 8)
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Just like sex really. You can either do it your self or sit back and let some one else have a go...I know where I'd rather be. ;D ;D ;D Yes it was joke 8)
As they say......if you want the job done properly do it yourself :cup:
Dave
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We're just back from 4 weeks up the cape, 2x100series TD cruisers, 1 manual 1 auto(older 4speed). The Auto performed really well. Engine braking wasn't a problem in low 1. Palm creek saw the manual TD splashing down hard as the driver tried in vain to slow it on the brakes but the low 1 gearing was too fast. The auto just crept over the edge on the brakes gently as could be for an easy start to the tele track. Up the other side the manual needed a second go after running out of momentum at the top, but the auto walked up easy as could be.
I always though engine braking would be the biggest drama for the auto but after coming home via the CREB track I now know its not an issue at all. I'm really glad I chose the auto now, relaxing to drive the long distances to the action then easily as capable as the manual when the fun starts.
P.s. fuel economy was near as the same for both vehicles for the whole trip as we always filled up in the same spots and almost always fitted the same amount of fuel in.
P.p.s. The Manual used more....but thats because all manual drivers think they are Fangio. :-*
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My 4wd came in 4 transmissions over its manufacturing period, 5 and 6 speed manual AND 3 AND 4 sp autos. I've tried them all but by far the manuals were easier to do circle work ;)
Cheers
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22,000 km into my manual Prado 150 ownership. I'm very impressed with the six speed, yeah I the city I grumble about changing gears... But I live in the country !
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Hows the 8 speed Amarok?
Just as well thats not a manual chang on all those gears.............
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Autos at Bathurst? Doubt it.
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Because autos are like hens teeth in a gq td42 and one probably wouldn't last too long towing the camper running 24psi boost without some mods and autos are for girls :cheers:
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i like my manual.....driving an auto is like driving a dodgem car
My work truck is a 12 speed auto...i feel a bit lazy when i driving it.. ;D
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Because the jack cost us $100 lol
Most of our cars lately have been manuals, joys of being wreckers/panel beaters I get given whatever to drive lol
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Love my manual tranny, feels like I'm involved in the whole driving process. Plus, with some of my previous trucks the need to roll start was mandatory ! :cup:
:cheers:
Discoteddy .
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I just like to rev mine sometimes. Here's a video:
(http://s421.photobucket.com/albums/pp300/jeeps_photo/?action=view¤t=Exhaust01.mp4)
It gurgles and splutters so so sweet under engine braking/de-compression. I don't hardly ever use the brake pedal if i can help it... just engine brake everywhere because it sounds so nice. I'm still running the factory brake pads 150,000klm later... It ain't no V8 but i love the manual in my jeep for these reasons.
cheers
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I owned 5 GU Patrols, one was Auto, it overheated in hard going, computer used to go into limp mode, occasionally locked in position when changing in/out 4wd and also did lock into park a few times which had to be forced out - none of which is good for a work vehicle you rely on.
Also had ~1T less towing capacity than manual type as does current Patrol.
Nissan decided TD42ti only came in manual - suits me fine.
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We are looking at getting a TD 80 Series, our options are limited with an Auto and as a daily driver it will do trips to the train station and back so not really an issue.
I also like driving manual and never had a problem with the manual around town, mind you that was in a small sedan. I drive my mates manual 80 series when in Perth and don't have an issue with that one either.
Would auto be better for what we want to do? Almost certainly and if we get the chance we will go auto, but manual is not a bad compromise to stick with an 80 series in my opinion.
Bunyip
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Personal preference is all there is to it these days, I reckon. I think you still get a bit better economy in a well driven manual.
I much prefer a manual in bumper to bumper freeway peak hour crawl - I have six speeds that I can use without any pedals. The car will idle in any gear up to 40km/h. I annoy the hell out of the 'run and stop' people, as I just keep the car idling along, and catch up to them just as they pull away again. Driving an auto in these circumstances requires you to always be on the throttle.
I expect that a CVT with a modern turbo diesel would be an absolute rocket ship, it could keep the revs at 2k and just accelerate all the way.
I do wish you could make the choice for any model of car, it really peeves me that once you tick the 'luxury' accessories with the car, that the manufacturer unticks the manual option.
I don't like the way that an auto won't let you amble along in a higher gear on a flat road getting good economy. They keep you in a lower gear with higher revs, or don't lock up the torque converter, so there is more energy lost.
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Just to expand on my choices
My Mini clubman with worked engine was a manual and was a joy to drive because of this
Had a Mini K auto, urge
2.4 petrol Hilux manual was boring
Sierra, manual was great fun and needed to be manual to utilise the high revving engine. Once I installed 100:1 gearing an auto would have been a much better choice for extreme offroad work, more control
V8 Valiant with auto, perfect combo, lazy V8 with heaps of torque, perfect cruising car
4.2 non turbo diesel GU manual which is needed to ensure I'm always in the power band
3.6 Jackaroo petrol auto. Nice match of engine and box, bit thirsty, but nice civilized family 4wd
So I guess it's horses for courses for me
Am looking for a Jack at the moment. Petrol + Auto seem to be prevalent.
The only down side seems to be the thirstyness, but not a real problem for the little city driving it would do.
Could also 'dual fuel' it I guess, if I decide to use it as my daily commuter...