MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Tim - Stratford on July 29, 2012, 07:03:45 PM
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G'day all,
Just after thoughts regarding what you would think would make a good all-round police 4WD. The main function is 'in the bush' in hilly and alpine environments, specifically, the Alpine National Park.
The vehicle should be as safe as possible, ie all the new fangled stability gadgets, roomy and comfortable and most importantly, have all the required equipment available as a factory/dealer option.
There has been ongoing discussions, sometimes heated, in relation to this $64,000 question.....post your ideas and include your justifications if game. ;D
Comments??? :police:
...next we'll move onto tyres for the 'winner'..... ;D
Tim
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76 series Cruiser.........
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76 series Cruiser.........
X2
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X2
X3
We have the Pootrol at Diamo but I would rather have the above. Thats why I bought one! Is Guy letting u choose one?
Wayne
And I paid $64,000 :police:
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76 series Cruiser.........
It is pretty close to the top of the list but a bit 'low-tech' in the safety gear. No side/curtain airbags and I don't think it has VSC, maybe a bit light on in fuel capacity too - happy to be corrected. It does have a snorkel, steel bullbar, winch and cargo barrier as options which is a plus.
Tim
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It is pretty close to the top of the list but a bit 'low-tech' in the safety gear. No side/curtain airbags and I don't think it has VSC, maybe a bit light on in fuel capacity too - happy to be corrected. It does have a snorkel, steel bullbar, winch and cargo barrier as options which is a plus.
Tim
I wouldn't go the mods that Toyota do. I have heard their bars and winch arent the best. So go after market. IMO
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X3
We have the Pootrol at Diamo but I would rather have the above. Thats why I bought one! Is Guy letting u choose one?
Wayne
There's a bit of a 'project' underway in the far east (used to be Far Q - say it quick ;D) the lads have the braid on-board so we'll see what happens. No-one is happy with the Patrols up this way. We just got told the pod is coming out of them - too dangerous and contradicts policy.
Tim.
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I wouldn't go the mods that Toyota do. I have heard their bars and winch arent the best. So go after market. IMO
I think we're locked in to factory/dealer options only....Mate has a work 200 - no snorkel as no Toyota option...... ???
Tim
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There's a bit of a 'project' underway in the far east (used to be Far Q - say it quick ;D) the lads have the braid on-board so we'll see what happens. No-one is happy with the Patrols up this way. We just got told the pod is coming out of them - too dangerous and contradicts policy.
Tim.
The only thing you would have in the pod is the deer you just shot,lol. Mate I get a V8 at work so dont need the fourby. I have the E class and drove work Patrol and IMO is crap. Definitely need to go Landcruiser. I dont think the braid will pay for 200 series so you may have to look at the Workmate 76 GXL which wil be coming out with ABS which I just missed out on. Possibly with lockers as standard.
Wayne
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I think we're locked in to factory/dealer options only....Mate has a work 200 - no snorkel as no Toyota option...... ???
Tim
I dont know how that works because the other fourbys I have driven have Warn winches,snorkels etc.
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I dont know how that works because the other fourbys I have driven have Warn winches,snorkels etc.
Our Nissans have snorkels as standard and the dealer fits Warn, I think Toyota still use Superwinch. Our Pajeros up this way don't have snorkels which makes us a bit nervous heading into Talbotville etc with the river crossings! ;D
There was a news article regarding the 70 Series last week - that they only have a 5 year shelf life left in Aust due to new ANCAP restrictions on commercial vehicles - they'll need side/curtain airbags to continue and Toyota don't agree with it....hopefully they just add them!......and also an 18mths wait on the GX 200.
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I guess a helicopter is out of the question.
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After watching a bloke in my clubs 76 on ARB suspension around Robe it wouldnt be top of my list...
The thing looked like it would roll over and the occupants would be seasick 1/2 way up the first track that was fairly uneven (like wombat holes)...
each to their own.
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Cost will be a factor no doubt,
My 2 bobs worth,
Nissan Patrol, Mitsubishi Pajero, Base model 200 series cruiser. I discounted the 76 because of leaf springs and safety features. These are not in order of preference.
I quantify my opinion with; I worked in Tumut in the NSW Snowy mountains for 13 years as a fisheries officer and accessed all of the same tracks and locations (more even) than the local police. In this time I had 80 series, 100 series and Nissan patrol wagons and a TDV8 76 cab chassis with telstra box fitted. I did all of my night work and lots of my day work with both the Parkies and the Talbingo and Tumut police. This included Koszi and all it had to offer. These ops were for many purposes including illegal hunting, fish poaching, wild life poaching and search/drug crops and rescue.
I spent a lot of time in Police vehicles, however they would usually prefer to patrol in mine because it was better kitted out in a number of ways. Unfortunately the most basic was mud tyres for snow work, where they were confined to standard road rubber (Just dumb management).
The police had Nissan patrol wagons at the time (3lt) and I cannot remember being let down by one of them, yes there are issues with torque etc however when it came to getting the job done they were fine. At this time also the cops started to change over to the Pajeros and I must say they were impressive from an engine/drive line point of view and a totally different animal to the Nissan. The Pajero was better in a lot of areas than the Nissan's because of all of the electronic aids, stability and traction control, it would drive up things the old school tech in the Nissan would struggle with, in other areas the Nissan was better, ultimately off road the Nissan won simply because of higher ground clearance in the snow. A lot of the tracks have small trees laying across them that fall over or snap off from the weight of snow (Particularly so with tracks closed to the general public - think lost cross country skiers) in the Nissan you could just barge and bash through where you had to be a bit more careful and strategic in the Pajero - this could make a difference in an emergency.
Lastly the base 200 series, it is a progression of the landcruisers of the day, and the 100 series was a mighty beast for both a police and fisheries vehicle in the day, yes the 1HZ was a bit slow but in the bush it had the traits of the Nissan's ruggedness and also the low down grunt of the engine when things got challenging. I believe the base 200 would be a progression of this, with better safety features/engines etc.
Hope this means something. They may not be flash and have all of the bells and whistles that the guys want but these vehicles have proven themselves in the field and done exactly what you have asked and they tick all of the needs.
Regards
Jas
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They ahve the 76 series out this way, and with the cage in the back, and all the additional weight the police have to carry, we call it the police turtle. They are running BFG AT's, and have already been through 2 sets of tyres in 5 months, but then they sit on 100 kph on rough roads as a standard. New police now though, so we will see how these guys go.
In Yuendemu and Kintore they use Hiluxes, and never seem to have a problem.
Tjupurula
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After watching a bloke in my clubs 76 on ARB suspension around Robe it wouldnt be top of my list...
The thing looked like it would roll over and the occupants would be seasick 1/2 way up the first track that was fairly uneven (like wombat holes)...
each to their own.
But was it a troopy or a workmate?
Wayne
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Is this rig a personal or a company banger ???
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200 series.
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Is this rig a personal or a company banger ???
Company
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Can you get a 2in lift or is this not in the game for the Pajero . ???
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Prado or 76, the problem you have is speed rating on tyres, local police pajeros have snorkels but tyres are road slicks to get the speed rating. You don't want something that will be a chore on the highway so you also want something comfy, Let's face it, goverment cars will go heaps further than privately owned ones anyway.
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Can you get a 2in lift or is this not in the game for the Pajero . ???
I dont think VicPol do two inch lifts. The tyres are different, sometimes Wranglers, or BFG,. Depends on who gets the contract to supply, usually around this way they will appoint a local dealer to,provide them.
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Do you need a divvy/paddy/box-back unit (dual cab), or wagon?
Most of the work there is GD and looking after ski/tourist traffic on bitumen
Pajero is the pick for urgent duty work as it is the tightest/most forgiving handler of the lot and has some stonk
It's full-time 4WD capable
Full chassis electronics etc so is very capable in real-world situations AND ticks all the boxes for safety/OHS
Used widely in NSW for these reasons
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GeeTee,
Mainly for bush patrols and searches etc - don't need the pod/van type - We do encounter rivers, creeks, hills and snow - all the good stuff. Ground clearance can be a big issue depending on where we go.
Tim
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I think we're locked in to factory/dealer options only....
Landcruiser 76/78 with the mine spec pack, which includes roll over protection - might get around the air bag requirement.
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My 2 bobs worth,
Nissan Patrol, Mitsubishi Pajero, Base model 200 series cruiser. I discounted the 76 because of leaf springs and safety features. These are not in order of preference.
Jas,
Good balanced response. The only drama I had with the Patrol was getting stuck in/on 3 foot of snow. The DSE guys with us in a 76 with diff locks and four chains got stuck too - but got out quicker.
Some members have formed opinions on hear-say and rumours - so there's a bit of sifting to do. My all time fav was the 105 Cruiser - honest but slow. Never been in a 200....hopefully they choose them! ;D
Tim
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I think the VW Amarok is a worthy option & seems to tick your boxes....
http://www.volkswagenaustralia.com.au/Amarok/Amarok_Web.pdf (http://www.volkswagenaustralia.com.au/Amarok/Amarok_Web.pdf)
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Jas,
Good balanced response. The only drama I had with the Patrol was getting stuck in/on 3 foot of snow. The DSE guys with us in a 76 with diff locks and four chains got stuck too - but got out quicker.
Some members have formed opinions on hear-say and rumours - so there's a bit of sifting to do. My all time fav was the 105 Cruiser - honest but slow. Never been in a 200....hopefully they choose them! ;D
Tim
Tim
Our vehicles were the same, compared to the Police vehicles we used in the day. A number of our 100's has double lockers, all of our vehicles have 2 inches of lift (our 76's have 3700kg GVM upgrades), full Toyota or Nissan, front and rear bar options with winches, we had cooper STT's fitted, and diamond snow chains to suit, our vehicles out performed both the Police and NPWS vehicles because there departments didn't upgrade them from standard (apart from bull bar and winch, they had standard issue tyres ??? ). We live in our vehicles (extended patrols, sleep in swags, cook eat sleep etc) so we can justify the equipment.
It is my opinion that both the Nissan or Paj (and cruiser preferably ;D ) would have been as capable as our vehicles with the same upgrades. Honestly whenever the Talbingo cops needed to do a job in the Park in winter they would ring and wake up the fishpig (me) to assist. Operational protocols a lot of the time required that they use a Police vehicle (even though we had radios in our vehicle/and HF/sat phone) they would want me to follow them as we could just about conquer anything in a timely manner with two trucks (and to be fair the Paj's and Nissans did an admirable job considering their spec).
There are plenty of good base vehicles to choose from, however getting your management to spend the money needed on upgrades to make them a capable all round unit will be the stumbling block.
Regards
Jas
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There was a news article regarding the 70 Series last week - that they only have a 5 year shelf life left in Aust due to new ANCAP restrictions on commercial vehicles - they'll need side/curtain airbags to continue and Toyota don't agree with it....hopefully they just add them!......and also an 18mths wait on the GX 200.
Nothing to do with ANCAP restrictions, BHP is making a shift in that all vehicles onsite will be 5 star rated - weather other mining companies follow suit who knows. But the majority of 7# series sold are to mining/fleet. Toyota are not going to do anywork to the 70 to make it 5 star. Also seen a toyota bulliten the other day that the factory diff lock option will be dropped
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But was it a troopy or a workmate?
this one :)
(http://www.vfwdc.com/images/Robe_2010_2/Albums/Album2/Large/Robe_10_33.jpg)
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Dept don't want to go back to Toyota as they receive no assistance from them as we're a minuscule market. 76 has the issue of passenger airbag so won't be entertained. Cannot be any alterations to vehicle other than factory fitout as they are all tested from the factory at MUARC and are signed off from there. The issues/hassles with getting BFG AT was rediculous. Tyre was within specifications but when Patrols were approved by MUARC, Dueller 693 were on it. Dept won't stray from what the factory engineers sign off on. To Nissans credit they came out to rural police area and were involved with meetings and testing. It'll be Patrols for some time yet.
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Vic SES use patrols almost exclusively. There are a few hiluxes but there's been issues with bullbars and winches overloading the front suspension.
I would like to say a new 75 series be the go but if you're over 5'5", you're going to find the drivers seat too cramped. I sat in one a few weeks ago and I was surprised how little room there was. I'm no beanshoot at 5'11" but I felt like my knees were up near my chest...!
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l personally want our :police: to have a bit of comfort , but in a sound & able 4B . Get a Pajero fleet , stackem full fo extra bits then sell them off at 60KM . A very handy tug . Good for them good for us Win/Win :cheers:
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while not police, i work for optus, and we have mixed 4wd's for 20* years.
however, the fibre repair team (fix the connections between the major capitals when the break or farmer fred back hoes through them) retain old but still going strong toyota troop carriers. only thing that will get into the back of omen during a flood event to fix a fibre break..
*they settled on klugers for the general operations cars a couple of years ago, then someone in fleet/an accountant ticked the "cheapest" box on the BULK order. 12 weeks later, 25 front wheel drive klugers arrived :D was a fun 2 years not being able to access sites in the rain - was great for parking at the shops though :D
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, then someone in fleet/an accountant ticked the "cheapest" box on the BULK order. 12 weeks later, 25 front wheel drive klugers arrived :D was a fun 2 years not being able to access sites in the rain - was great for parking at the shops though :D
Hah if that wasn't so serious it'd be damn funny!
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200 series Cruiser
Disco 4
Mainly for there offroad settings
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(http://i263.photobucket.com/albums/ii153/gjwgjw_photos/Cayene2.jpg)
Someone mentioned the Amarok. There is another one from the Volkswagen Group......
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After driving our SES partol I do not like them so much. Sure they are a capable vehicle but I just do not like the feel.
As for :police: I know the SAR section were told that they could not even change the tyers they run even to a more aggressive AT because of restrictions (they said lease but I am sure it is internal policy).
I would think the 200 series would be my choice. Imagine fitting 5 adults in a Prado at the end of a search to bring the lost home? I would not. I love my Prado but they are not a big vehicle.
At work they would not come at 200 series so we are getting Partols which we break in no time. (remember these vehicles are driven by lots of people and 24hrs a day)
Good luck in the search for a suitable vehicle and I hope that the purse strings stretch to a safe and competent vehicle.
Regards
Crisp Image
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I think this shows a common failing in modern 4wds and their sad deterioration into shopping trolleys. There is no *clear* winner in this case...
200
7x
Patrol
Paj
Prado
What about a bendy chassis Dual Cab Ute with a dogbox on the back.
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I can't believe that an essential emergency service has to fit in a box that clearly isn't suitable. I know there are budgets etc but there should be some room to move for certain applications.
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Lada Niva is the go
:cheers:
Smoko
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Good to see the attitude of the braid hasn't changed.
I recall taking delivery of the first V8 divvy wagon, a 253, no heater or demister, vinyl seats and fitted with re-treads.
The DDI however had a nice set of wheels on his Premier.
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this one :)
(http://www.vfwdc.com/images/Robe_2010_2/Albums/Album2/Large/Robe_10_33.jpg)
A bad driver always blames his car!!
The one at the back looks a bit bogged too!
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Good to see the attitude of the braid hasn't changed.
I recall taking delivery of the first V8 divvy wagon, a 253, no heater or demister, vinyl seats and fitted with re-treads.
The DDI however had a nice set of wheels on his Premier.
:cheers: :cup:
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:cheers: :cup:
Thats a blast from the past, the DDI! Havent heard that for a long time. Actually there was a nice 200 in the carpark last week apparently a loaner for the braid? WTF?
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The one at the back looks a bit bogged too!
he was... the dude in the purple (isnt that a valiant colour?) one was recovering the 100.. Robe always rocks!
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The Qld Police Service has a few different options out there but from a driver training perspective we use a 200series GX (has snorkel, bull bar and winch) and a Prado GX (2006 model with only 86000km on it) that will be replaced with a Hilux dual cab very soon. I love the 200 GX but it could do with a suspension upgrade.... rather sloppy on the road.... When I worked in Charleville there were troopies and landcruisers plus normal sedans...
Life is tough when my job is to train police how to drive (well manage the police who do and I do get to drive all the different options and we also trial new models the QPS is considering implementing).......
Regards
Scott
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Life is tough when my job is to train police how to drive (well manage the police who do and I do get to drive all the different options and we also trial new models the QPS is considering implementing).......
Regards
Scott
My old man was an instructor (Cars and bikes) at the NSW Police Driver Training centre for 11 years when it was at St Ives. He left when they relocated to Goulburn because he didn't like the cold. LOL
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Lada Niva is the go
:cheers:
Heated back windows ,,,,,, keep your hands warm as you push it :cheers:
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The Qld Police Service has a few different options out there but from a driver training perspective we use a 200series GX (has snorkel, bull bar and winch) and a Prado GX (2006 model with only 86000km on it) that will be replaced with a Hilux dual cab very soon. I love the 200 GX but it could do with a suspension upgrade.... rather sloppy on the road.... When I worked in Charleville there were troopies and landcruisers plus normal sedans...
Life is tough when my job is to train police how to drive (well manage the police who do and I do get to drive all the different options and we also trial new models the QPS is considering implementing).......
Regards
Scott
They could cettainly do with your services out this way Scott. Some of the police that come out here drive a 4wd like it is a town petrol car, and they get into some bad situations.
Regards
Tjupurula
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They could cettainly do with your services out this way Scott. Some of the police that come out here drive a 4wd like it is a town petrol car, and they get into some bad situations.
Regards
Tjupurula
Tjupurula, I can imagine mate. We have the same issue...
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Is this a hypothetical or real question?
Normally the cops vehicle division will supply the vehicle based on the 'vehicle policy' with input from the driver training section once they have been evaluated.
May have changed since I left ???
Funny down here in tas is seems to be you can have anything you like as long as its blue and the Brand starts with 'T' and the model starts with 'L'. ;D
For normal duties you get one that starts with a 'P' in the second model name and for hard duties (rescue etc) you get one that starts with a '2'.
Though on occasions there are white ones that start with an 'M'
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Is this a hypothetical or real question?
Normally the cops vehicle division will supply the vehicle based on the 'vehicle policy' with input from the driver training section once they have been evaluated.
Hi Dazzler. yes we evaluate new models on a set criteria and decisions are based on this.
Regards
Scott
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Hiya Timbo
Longtime no see mate,haven't been down your way for awhile. ;D....Why dont you lease your one out to the force at 2k a week ...lmao
Cheers
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;D....Why dont you lease your one out to the force at 2k a week ...lmao
Newer with similar specs and I'd be happy! ;D
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Is this a hypothetical or real question?
Dazzler,
Hopefully real! - A group of members have been documenting a few incidents and failures of Patrols and the (local) Bosses are listening. We'll see what happens. The biggest problem we have is basically 'no mods allowed'. Makes it hard when you're trying to get to an accident scene that involves a heavily modded fourby off the beaten track.
Tim
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Jeep 4 door rubicon wrangler say no more
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There's always one...
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There's always one...
LOL............................ ???
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Surprised no one has said Great Wall ute !
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If you go Jeep then you will need 2 to try to keep the other going >:D
Thats it Tims question has decended into this :cheers:
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G'day all,
Just after thoughts regarding what you would think would make a good all-round police 4WD. The main function is 'in the bush' in hilly and alpine environments, specifically, the Alpine National Park.
The vehicle should be as safe as possible, ie all the new fangled stability gadgets, roomy and comfortable and most importantly, have all the required equipment available as a factory/dealer option.
There has been ongoing discussions, sometimes heated, in relation to this $64,000 question.....post your ideas and include your justifications if game. ;D
1. It has to meet WHS guidelines so it will have to have the safety package as standard. (airbags, abs, vsc, tc)
2. This is where it gets heated and a few will lose me here but anyway here goes;
The biggest issue is where do you need to get and why and can you get yourself out if you get stuck. Most police vehicles fail here. They will come with an electric front winch and probably thats it. Most dont come with a recovery kit so there is not a lot they can do. But lets say you have shackles, tree protector, gloves, pulleys etc.
So risk manage this and you know that you can only go forwards if it will help you which means that where you can go is now reduced.
Has the operator done a recovery course? No. Then they cant use it operationally otherwise the dept is culpable. I bet this covers a lot of the police 4wds out there.
Lets say they have done the course and it has the gear. It still cant winch out backwards so its limited to where it can efficiently go (efficient being that you dont send a crew out with the possibility that they will need rescuing). Now whether its a defender or a pajero you are only really talking degrees of where it can get to before being stuck and then help is needed.
Thats a bit rambling but I hope it makes a bit of sense.
So for me the answer is any of the current reliable vehicles out there that meet the WHS standards. Which without brand favouritism is either Pajero, Prado or Landcruiser.
But this MUST be combined with a decent set of mud/snow tyres AND a recovery kit that includes a tirfor hand winch and associated recovery gear. Keep the front winch for those occasions and removing trees off the road. It also needs a small chainsaw (ever noticed most rescues happen when the weather is poor/windy :) ).
And finally, a decent 4wd and recovery course using the gear.
Justifications - I rewrote the training manual for police 4wd and recovery 8)
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JEEP!!!!! OK while we're at it....Suzuki Jimny hard top, $64000 to spend $24,000 car leaves $40,000 trip to ARB for dual lockers, winch bar with winch(optional as they could still lift it out by hand) leaves $30,000 for pay rises & counselling after seeing themselves screeching to a hault, 4 x 6foot plus 120+kg boys jumping out...clown car....seriously a 'JEEP'.......a least I was joking here
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In all honesty your not going to get the safest and best 4wd ability in one package. A compromise will need to be made......
Off the shelf, no mods the most capable 4wd is the Defender......
If safety and comfort you would be better off with Prado, Pajero or the like....
The 200series would be too big a bulky for tight tracks, also too heavy for snow type work.
I still recon the 76 series would be a decent compromise for that sort of work. Well, if it was my coin, that's what I would buy.....
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Yes, Vicpol do a recovery course. We are trained on how to use winches etc. NO we can not recover other vehicles. Our job is to find the stranded vehicles and get the people out, not to recover their cars. Not our problem. If you go in the bush as many do and can't get out, call the towie. :police:
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Somebody say safe, go anywhere....may have to cut down on numbers ordered but at least it wont need a recovery vehicle so less needed to be order.
BTW if this was to go I raise my hand for the ex gov purchase ;D
http://youtu.be/cDoRmT0iRic (http://youtu.be/cDoRmT0iRic)
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Yes, Vicpol do a recovery course. We are trained on how to use winches etc. NO we can not recover other vehicles. Our job is to find the stranded vehicles and get the people out, not to recover their cars. Not our problem. If you go in the bush as many do and can't get out, call the towie. :police:
LOL if only I applied your logic, I have recovered Police vehicles on more than 40 occasions in the NSW snowys, maybe I should have said "Nah it hasn't got scales, not my problem call a tow truck"
Most of these coppers are mates of mine and all of these country coppers would do their best to asist stranded travellers, we have pulled many out and they never ever hesitated, regardless of protocols, they always gave assistance when they could.
Maybe its different in Mexico :angel:
Regards
Jas
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Jeep 4 door rubicon wrangler say no more
+1
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Jeep 4 door rubicon wrangler say no more
As the NON stop ads between the swimming carnival (ch9 only seem to show swimming) say. Don't hold back - Australia. :)
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Somebody say safe, go anywhere....may have to cut down on numbers ordered but at least it wont need a recovery vehicle so less needed to be order.
BTW if this was to go I raise my hand for the ex gov purchase ;D
http://youtu.be/cDoRmT0iRic (http://youtu.be/cDoRmT0iRic)
Jake and Elwood Blues would love it.
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If Vicpol dont get a fleet discount then who would . The 64K to spend on a rig should include extras if not get a better person on the job. Deals for fleet are the life blood of the motor trade . 2 to 3 years later blokes lie us get bargans at the Gov fleet sales ;D Cops get the sweet ride & service it well then pass it on to us :cheers:
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Unfortunately Jason B, its not our fault. We will get the people out regardless of protocol but as far as their vehicles go, we have to leave them. Not allowed to winch them out. OH&S. Remember last year when one of our ministers got lost in the bush so they spent tens of thousands on a drone to locate him. Could have bought a few capable fourbys for that.
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I wish more of our ministers would "get lost" ;D
Didn't the NSW police have troopies before the Patrols a while back? The ambulance service even fitted one with tracks for the snowies.
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As an all singing, all dancing Toyota man, this will come off a little strange. But I actually agree with the call for a Jeep.
I'll start of by saying that I would never have purchased a Jeep if the 76 Series had come with airbags, ABS and traction control back in 2007. But nonetheless it didn't, and I ended up doing a "Jeep experiment".
I owned one (07 JK 4 Door Diesel) for 3 years and am glad I sold it before the warranty period expired, as you pay through the nose for parts on those things, but this was the most capable 4x4 I have ever owned* (Caveat - that statement only applies after the standard suspension was replaced with a ~50mm lift kit and some decent rubber was put on). This was a light car, great angles, nice looking, traction control etc etc etc. As for payload, with two coppers onboard, there would be plenty of room for gear. In light of the period of use of the Police, I'd suggest Jeep. If I was buying it for myself to keep for 20 years, I would never go past a Toyota though.
Cons - not as comfy as the Toyotas I've owned (particularly the 80 series-I loved that thing!).
I saw a Vic Police JK Wrangler a few years ago up at Falls Creek.
* this covers the JK, 40 series, 60 series, 79 series, 80 series, 110 Prado & now 150 Prado.
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x3 for the jeep.
allready been done in Vic (Falls creek)
common stateside.
Id get the optional Hardtop!!
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Unfortunately Jason B, its not our fault. We will get the people out regardless of protocol but as far as their vehicles go, we have to leave them. Not allowed to winch them out. OH&S. Remember last year when one of our ministers got lost in the bush so they spent tens of thousands on a drone to locate him. Could have bought a few capable fourbys for that.
Same rules of engagement as NSW Wyno but in reality if its an easy recovery in an isolated area the NSW Police have always been willing to help (what happens on tour stays on tour). In reality it is much easier for them, the alternative of running a family of 4 back into town (an hour or more away) in a police vehicle is not tenable. This approach makes much more sense than tying up a Police vehicle for 2 hours that is now not able to attend to any other jobs especially when the police have come from a one man country station.
regards
jas
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Same rules of engagement as NSW Wyno but in reality if its an easy recovery in an isolated area the NSW Police have always been willing to help (what happens on tour stays on tour). In reality it is much easier for them, the alternative of running a family of 4 back into town (an hour or more away) in a police vehicle is not tenable. This approach makes much more sense than tying up a Police vehicle for 2 hours that is now not able to attend to any other jobs especially when the police have come from a one man country station.
regards
jas
Too true Jas but I have been counselled a couple of times. Its got to a point where you do your job and go home. Sad state of affairs. One day I will relay an interesting story to you. I won't put it on paper. So when we meet up just remind me. ;D
Wayne
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offcourse I would imagine if the vehicle was blocking the track or in a dangerous position it would be prudent to relocate it? ;) ;) ;)
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x3 for the jeep.
allready been done in Vic (Falls creek)
common stateside.
Id get the optional Hardtop!!
NICE..
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Too true Jas but I have been counselled a couple of times. Its got to a point where you do your job and go home. Sad state of affairs. One day I will relay an interesting story to you. I won't put it on paper. So when we meet up just remind me. ;D
Wayne
Will do mate. It has always been hard to fathom that we can justify upgraded 76 series cruisers for our duties which relate to fish, and you guys can't get the same level of support from your management when lives may depend on it. The stupid part is we can justify our vehicles and its supported by risk assesements and operational need. How can this not be that case for the Police? We work in the same terrain.
Don't get me wrong we are under the pump all of the time to down grade by the bean counters, however at the moment our bosses were field officers so they are understanding of the issues. It will be a different kettle of fish (I made a funny) when the bean counters are steering the ship.
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Well despite my personal drive being a Navara I've driven everything from Landcruisers to Unimogs and I'd have to say based on my current work car the MB G-Wagen will get you in and out of almost anywhere
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R1,
Not quite enough $$$ to extend that far.... :-[
Thankfully they didn't go with these....(promo from Hummer a few years back)
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb50/Elmer_5mf/hummer2.jpg)
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I am surprised that a 76 wouldn't be an acceptable vehicle. It sounds as if the requirements cannot be met by any production vehicle, in which case there must be a compromise; revise the requirement or increase the budget.
What was that sign? "OH&S; creating a nation of wimps".
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R1,
Not quite enough $$$ to extend that far.... :-[
Thankfully they didn't go with these....(promo from Hummer a few years back)
(http://i211.photobucket.com/albums/bb50/Elmer_5mf/hummer2.jpg)
Lurking in the back blocks of Dawson St again? Hey is that my old booze bus I use to drive? Yep, all of them. ;D
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I'll throw my hat into the ring for the Defender. Landie jokes aside, when talking standard 4WDs there's not much that can compare to a Deefer. All the options (inc mud tyres, winches, bars, etc) are all factory options. Small TD motor should help appease the bean counters. Big enough cargo are to haul all the gear you may or may not need.
Of course, I've got no idea what the standard safety spec for a Defender 110 is these days. I believe they have ABS, but no idea if you're talking Traction Control, or any of the fancy Terrain Response that the Disco gets. All I know is that I've seen the video of the fancy anti-stall system working, and it looks idiot proof.
I'd be tempted by the 200GX, simply because of all it's fancy electronics.
Good luck with whatever you can convince the Powers That Be you need!
Matto :)
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It sounds as if the requirements cannot be met by any production vehicle, in which case there must be a compromise
agree...
Good luck with it though.
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What about one of these
Its has 4x4 and diff locks on the arse
Might be a bit tight on some corners
Spent a sh%* load of hours on this trailer
We made a lot of special vehicles for Vicpol
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What about one of these
It's OK, but I'd be concerned about cargo capacity for it. Some of these guys need to carry a heap of gear, I'm not sure if you'd squeeze it all into the back of that.
Cheers!
Matto :)
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You might be right there
They need 2 of them :laugh:
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They are nice inside >:D
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They are nice inside >:D
Can't say its been around the northern suburbs. Is that an education unit? Or a mobile police facility?
Wyno
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Can't say its been around the northern suburbs. Is that an education unit? Or a mobile police facility?
Wyno
Hey Wyno
Its a mobile police facility
Mobile comand unit
They had it up at Whittlesea after Black Saturday
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Can't say its been around the northern suburbs. Is that an education unit? Or a mobile police facility?
Wyno
could be a large smoking unit... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
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What about one of these
Its has 4x4 and diff locks on the arse
Might be a bit tight on some corners
Spent a sh%* load of hours on this trailer
We made a lot of special vehicles for Vicpol
Shepparton Motor Body Builders??
Did they do this one??
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Shepparton Motor Body Builders??
Did they do this one??
Was built at Rambler concept vehicles Campbellfield
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Hey Wyno
Its a mobile police facility
Mobile comand unit
They had it up at Whittlesea after Black Saturday
Didnt do NWS after the fires, we hung around Strathewen,Kinglake area. Thats why I never saw it. They must keep it in the other carpark.
Wayne
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I think they store it at Dawson St
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Why not use what the local rangers use? They live and work up there so they should know what works...
The local Rangers I ran into at Christmas were using Patrols....
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How do we get into the Dawson st field of dreams , sounds as though there is lots of fun rigs there . >:D
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If they are serious about no modifications then you really are looking at either the defender or the jeep. All things aside, they would be the most capable 4WD's straight off the factory floor.
If you are alowed some basic mods, like suspension and tyres, then the 200GX would be my pick.
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Seems to me that you need to change the "no mods" rule.
Keep the patrols but fit portal axels http://www.marks4wd.com/products/gearmaster/Gearmaster-portal-Nissan-GQ-GU.htm (http://www.marks4wd.com/products/gearmaster/Gearmaster-portal-Nissan-GQ-GU.htm)
You could swap them to new vehicles as they come on lease.
These & decent tyres and a snorkel would get you everywhere.
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G'day Tim,
I'd only consider a Nissan Patrol or a Toyota Landcruiser.
What ever you decide, it should be DIESEL.
I did a lot of homework before I got my Patrol. I considered:
Parts, servicing, mechanics knowledge, local repairs and dealership locations.
I'd suggest you give Telstra a ring and find out how they kit their 4by's out. I"ve got a 'pre loved' ex Telstra, Nissan Patrol 4.2 TDi. It came with all the fruit, as it was set up for remote travelling for a single operator. It is very OSH friendly. An excellent selling point.
It came with winch, spotties (IPF900), 2 spare tyres, dual batteries, long range tanks (1 x 90 and 1 x 80lt), fresh water tank, rear steps, 8lt hot.cold Handiwash, Reece towball hitch/tongue - so you can insert a proper, rear, rated recovery point - and not snatch from the towball (big NO, NO).
You need rated front and rear recovery points, a decent recovery kit and a set or two of Maxtrax - all of which can be transferred from vehicle to vehicle. Make sure everything is 'rated". With my front recovery points, I have 2 - one on each side - so that when I am recovered, or recover somebody, the weight is evenly distributed.
One big factor in your vehicle selection consideration will be resale value. From what I've seen, Toyotas and Nissans hold their value pretty good.
Mention the words OSH, Duty of Care, diesel and resale value in your report, and I think you're onto a winner. lol
Please, ring Telstra, Police in other states in OZ, and a few other big companies, even mining companies, and speak to the Vehicle Fleet Manager, and see how they set their work vehicles up. If you use a bit from each, give me a call and I'll seriously consider setting mine up that way, too. lol.
I've also got a HF Codan AR NGT radio, CB and a Telstra mobile phone with an external aerial.
All the best.
Take care out there.
Rossco
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G'day Rossco,
Thanks for your reply, there may be too much common sense in there! ;D
It's a bit of a loaded question re vehicles for the stated purpose - as we don't like getting stuck ourselves or putting our off-siders in danger/risk of injury - we'd love a fully kitted vehicle. Me personally, I'd go for the 200 series, front/rear bars, winch, recovery kit, tyres, snorkel etc, etc.....
The problem we have is Vicpol have to supply safe vehicles - so they go to the manufacturers and Monash University to tell them what is safe. All manufacturers say their vehicles are safe up to a level set by Aus Designs etc, Monash University then test for a variety of factors, including propensity for rollover in slide & tilt among other things.
Vicpol then decide on a 'safe' vehicle and approach a lease company who supply the vehicle. Between Vicpol/Manufacturer/Lease Company - we are currently unable to fit aggressive tyres or aftermarket third party company equipment - ie ARB, Safari, Kaymar etc... There have been a few exceptions in recent times - such as rear Kaymar bars as they were cheaper than replacing OEM bumpers each fortnight.
Some local lads to my area are currently assessing different vehicles and have the support of local command - we'll just have to wait and see. It is definitely a balancing act as these 'super off-road weapons' ;D are still used 90% of the time on a highway and are expected to hit the brakes, u-turn, catch-up to and intercept a speeding motorist....sort of knocks out the defender...a bit ;D
The guys initiating change have similar stories to Jase, Patrols getting stuck only to have Parks/DSE pass them with a toot-toot!
Time will tell.
Tim
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Sounds like a few people might need to chisel themselves away from their desks, go for a trip up your way and have some 'hands on experiences' and get their hands dirty - before they make their decisions.
Let 'em get bogged up to the axles in smelly mud, and tell them to 'fix it'. Make sure they have plenty of supplies for an overnighter or two, a change of clothes, good communications, a first aid kit, shovel and a couple of dunny rolls.
Enough said.
My apologies if I've offended anyone.
Take care out there.
Rossco
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It is definitely a balancing act as these 'super off-road weapons' ;D are still used 90% of the time on a highway and are expected to hit the brakes, u-turn, catch-up to and intercept a speeding motorist....sort of knocks out the defender...a bit ;D
Couldn't see a 3litre Patrol running down to many speeding motorist either!
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(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/208391_343793919042543_114963228_n.jpg)
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(http://a8.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/208391_343793919042543_114963228_n.jpg)
Can I have your name and address please officer ? >:D >:D
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Tim
Here are a couple of pic of our current fleet as kitted out. The Patrol and 76 series Cab chassis are kitted out very similar, as described above, these ar actually Obieco Telstra boxes made for us. Bar, winch, 3700kg GVM upgrade, full electrics in the rear, cookers, water, Spotties IPF's, 6 wheels and tyres, etc etc.
The Patrol wagon is the spec I was thinking for you guys. Patrol wagon ST (ABS and some other safety features) 2 inch OME lift with castor correction, off road tyres, Bar, Winch and roof rack. This is the spec we ran in the snowys also and it was a good compromise.
Regards
Jas
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Here is the Patrol wagon in the spec we use.
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Jas,
The wagon seems to be spec'ed just right. The main problem we have is the independent testing for rollover etc - they only test factory and anything else is 'bad'. There has been a bit of progress last week with a submission to test 200 series and 70 series.....hopefully it gets through.
The guys that are initiating this are slowly getting accross that they need a better off-road vehicle, but as previously mentioned it is always going to be a compromise.
......funny how Government Departments can be so different....
Tim
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You lads deserve a bit of comfort...ask for a Lexus LX570.
You will get heated seats....ready for those crisp days!
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Tim If roll overs are the problem them why not speck up as required then mount a lifting devise on both sides . Over it goes , push a button to inflate the side external air bag . Replace the mirror you broke when the truck fell on it then on your way . It will buff out :cheers: