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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Big Nath on July 01, 2012, 10:35:59 AM
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Well as of 10hrs 35Min ago (EST), we now have a carbon tax.
I'm wondering if any one can see the sky clearer now?
or does the air coming into your lunges feel cleaner??
;D ;D
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There was a great cartoon in the Saturday Advertiser yesterday saying:
We're all going to freeze to death because of global warming (as we can't afford to turn on the heaters).
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Well as of 10hrs 35Min ago (EST), we now have a carbon tax.
I'm wondering if any one can see the sky clearer now?
looks pretty crap overhead here, didnt do jack s#*t.
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I personally believe it is a total waste of time and OUR money >:D
when we have to pay big $$ for the small amount of carbon we put into the air when compared to China, or any other manufacturing country, we will loose more manufacturing to overseas countries simply because the local prices will escalate beyond our ability to buy the item.
Local manufacturers have to pay the CARBON TAX on every part and component they buy, as part of the production cost of the item, and then as a CARBON TAX they have to pay. That increased cost adds to the GST we already pay now, so the price will be noticeable and and we will have to IMPORT everything we need that is produced.
So in the long term we will have next to NO MANUFACTURING done here in Australia, and all the 'boat people' will want to go to America because they will not be able to afford to live here in Australia.
Thinking about that the Government will then have to give them much more money than our pensioners get
Woops, rethink that, the 'boaties' get MORE $$$ than any Australian citizen does right now>:D
as I say just my opinion, based on the facts as I understand them
if you believe the Aussie pensioner gets more $$ than a 'boatie' tell me I'm wrong, but also explain why I'm wrong ;D
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I just had 2 ton of red gum dropped off for the coonara and open fireplace... am I to blame?
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I personally believe it is a total waste of time and OUR money >:D
when we have to pay big $$ for the small amount of carbon we put into the air when compared to China, or any other manufacturing country, we will loose more manufacturing to overseas countries simply because the local prices will escalate beyond our ability to buy the item.
Local manufacturers have to pay the CARBON TAX on every part and component they buy, as part of the production cost of the item, and then as a CARBON TAX they have to pay. That increased cost adds to the GST we already pay now, so the price will be noticeable and and we will have to IMPORT everything we need that is produced.
So in the long term we will have next to NO MANUFACTURING done here in Australia, and all the 'boat people' will want to go to America because they will not be able to afford to live here in Australia.
Thinking about that the Government will then have to give them much more money than our pensioners get
Woops, rethink that, the 'boaties' get MORE $$$ than any Australian citizen does right now>:D
as I say just my opinion, based on the facts as I understand them
if you believe the Aussie pensioner gets more $$ than a 'boatie' tell me I'm wrong, but also explain why I'm wrong ;D
OK
http://www.kochie.com.au/the-real-benefits-for-asylum-seekers-in-australia (http://www.kochie.com.au/the-real-benefits-for-asylum-seekers-in-australia)
http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/98services.htm (http://www.immi.gov.au/media/fact-sheets/98services.htm)
Took about ten seconds to find, there is a lot more true info out there if you are interested.
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A little off topic
Was watching ABC this morning and they were saying over the next three years they will bring in about 13 plus Billion on the Miners Resource Rent Tax....
Oh well that should cover all the illegal queue jumping boat peoples expenses and the cost of our resources rescuing them...
While there kicking out pensioners from homes (public housing) there been in for 50 years plus so they can home these queue jumpers...
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Too many people fooled by MrRabbit and the Alan Jones of this world I think, you will not pay a carbon tax..
THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A CARBON TAX.
What has been introduced is a price on carbon dioxide, produced by something less than 500 companies. Their costs may/will filter down through the products/services they produce but will not result in the world ending today or any time in the foreseeable future.
Any business that has costs that can be attributed to carbon pricing can pass those costs on. Any business that tries to rip you and me of by jacking their prices, and blaming a a non exist "Carbon Tax", when those rises cannot be directly attributed to carbon pricing will justifiably be sat upon from a great height.
Costs for the average house hold will be less than the value of the compo being paid to most households, i.e. $10.10 per week.
Why has carbon pricing been introduced - to give an incentive to high carbon producers to lower the amount of carbon emissions they produce and therefore reduce the amount THEY need to pay. The end result being greater investment in "clean" energy and for your grand kids a better world I hope.
.............. and no I'm not a tree hugging greenie or mad Labor supporter. I have however, taken some time to inform myself and not just swallowed the tripe pedaled by those with a vested interest.
I have my flame suit on ;D
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Who cares mate as long as your warm...Chinas the worry
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Any business that has costs that can be attributed to carbon pricing can pass those costs on. Any business that tries to rip you and me of by jacking their prices, and blaming a a non exist "Carbon Tax", when those rises cannot be directly attributed to carbon pricing will justifiably be sat upon from a great height.
Most of the electricity in this country is generated by burning coal. Therefore any business that uses electricity will be impacted. Therefore they can increase prices to cover the increase in their energy spend to maintain their profit magins. Welcome to reality.
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Costs for the average house hold will be less than the value of the compo being paid to most households, i.e. $10.10 per week.
Yeh and
(http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070831020749/uncyclopedia/images/a/a2/Flying_Pig.jpg)
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Costs for the average house hold will be less than the value of the compo being paid to most households, i.e. $10.10 per week.
Why has carbon pricing been introduced - to give an incentive to high carbon producers to lower the amount of carbon emissions they produce and therefore reduce the amount THEY need to pay. The end result being greater investment in "clean" energy and for your grand kids a better world I hope.
.............. and no I'm not a tree hugging greenie or mad Labor supporter. I have however, taken some time to inform myself and not just swallowed the tripe pedaled by those with a vested interest.
I have my flame suit on ;D
$10.10 per week, will come in real handy next time some pensioner needs there aircon regassed.
All this tax will do is give some third world country an incentive to throw a few more tyres
on the fire to melt down some secondhand iron (probably a KIA or Daweoo) to sell back to us at an inflated price and we'll still get to breath the same polluted air.
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I just hope everyone remembers at the next election Ms Gillard distinctly stating prior to the last election that a carbon emissions scheme would NOT be introduced in this next term of government.
If it looks like a tax, smells like a tax then I guess we can safely assume it is a tax.
So far as companies hiking up prices unnecessarily and the gov't protecting us from said price hikes........since when has the gov't grown teeth. If they are referring to consumer affairs or the watchdogs.........they will always be the same.....good lip service but don't expect any real action to transpire. I could be wrong because they are always on the consumers side when it comes to action against the petrol companies aren't they.
:angel: :angel: :angel:
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Ok I have another tricky one. I'm about to cook a roast. Now the roast was packet pre carbon tax. So do I now eat less or more?
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Definately less. There is a work around though. If you can cook it with green energy then you are permitted to eat all but the bone. :cheers:
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Some simple facts for those silly enough to believe in the co2 lie.
The IPCC and UEA ( the climate people responsible for all this) have been caught out lying, fudging the data and engaging in political activism. See the USA senate report on the issue. Also see the senate grilling al gore over his lies in the movie he made.
There is no OBSERVED proof that co2 is the cause of "global warming" only computer models of such. Models that only spit out data withing the parameters of the data being put in. See nasa pulling back from climate stance...
The worlds temp has risen by 0.7 deg C over the last 150 years BUT there is a downward trend being observed currently
The worldwide push by greenies and leftists towards co2 taxes has more to do with wealth redistribution than anything else.
When you stop believing in the greens fairytale and educate yourself things become clearer.
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I don't know about everyone else, but I believe we will now pay more for everything, just like we do every year. Instead of calling it CPI as they usually do, they'll call it Carbon Tax, perhaps adding a percent or two for the extra letters in the words Carbon Tax as it will take more space on the A4 paper and ink to print the words Carbon Tax.
I highly doubt they will increase my wage by this same percentage this year. Haven't done so to date and I'm not holding my breath that they will suddenly become more employee conscious.
Any way you look at it ... I truely believe it's just another way for the Government to "appear to be doing something" without actually doing anything. They are so very good at it ... why change now?
Kit_e
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For those that think companies won't rip us of, and the Gov. will come down on them, explain this.
Our power costs in Tassie have just gone up 7% to cover the carbon tax, most of our power is generated through hydro so they will actually get carbon credits but we get slugged with a tax.
How does this work.
The Spirit of Tasmania has put a carbon levy on every car.
This is only the beggining, anyone who thinks they are going to be better of or not effected live in a different world to me.
Trevor
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The IPCC and UEA ( the climate people responsible for all this) have been caught out lying, fudging the data and engaging in political activism.
If you're referring to "climategate" and the debacle about the stolen emails:
Eight committees investigated the allegations and published reports, finding no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct. The Muir Russell report stated, however, "We do find that there has been a consistent pattern of failing to display the proper degree of openness, both on the part of CRU scientists and on the part of the UEA. The scientific consensus that global warming is occurring as a result of human activity remained unchanged at the end of the investigations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy)
Also see the senate grilling al gore over his lies in the movie he made.
While there are minor errors in An Inconvenient Truth, the main truths presented - evidence to show mankind is causing global warming and its various impacts is consistent with peer reviewed science. The judge that sat on this case (Justice Barton) said the film was "broadly accurate" in its presentation of climate change. Watch the movie and you will probably realise it's not as evil as it's made out to be.
There is no OBSERVED proof that co2 is the cause of "global warming" only computer models of such
It's well accepted by climate scientists that CO2 causes global warming - a lot of the more vocal "denialist "agree on this also. The argument now is more about climate "sensitivity", or in simple terms, how much CO2 is too much, and what exactly will be the ramifications.
The worlds temp has risen by 0.7 deg C over the last 150 years BUT there is a downward trend being observed currently
Which means exactly what?..... The fact that in the past 150 years the global temperature has risen at a rate faster than in any other time in the earths history must mean something. Just because there is a cooling trend for a couple of years, it doesn't mean you dismiss the last 148 years! Yes, the average global temperature fuctuates year by year, but the long term trend is that it's heating, and will continue heating. You need to look at all the available data and make an informed decision, not just look at a few years.
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(http://blkmav.com/images/tinfoil.jpg)
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The only reason we have a carbon tax is because gillard needed the greens to form a government,she could not care about the enviroment only about being pm of this country she's stuffing.Bob Brown quit as he knows the backlash is going to kill both labor & the greens.
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The only reason we have a carbon tax is because gillard needed the greens to form a government,she could not care about the enviroment only about being pm of this country she's stuffing.Bob Brown quit as he knows the backlash is going to kill both labor & the greens.
(http://www.integrityhomecontractors.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/handyman-carpentry.jpg)
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The only reason we have a carbon tax is because gillard needed the greens to form a government,she could not care about the enviroment only about being pm of this country she's stuffing.Bob Brown quit as he knows the backlash is going to kill both labor & the greens.
The only factual post in this thread.
Now back to the uninformed speculation please.
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The only factual post in this thread.
Now back to the uninformed speculation please.
No, no. my roast comment was also factual. :-)
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Well, whether CC is real or not, I can just about guarantee that the liberals will not repeal the tax.
A government will rarely, if ever, give up tax revenue.
Also imagine the backlash from your general, tranked out, braindead voter when the realisation is there that the removal of the tax will also mean the cessation of the "helping" payments to them.
Watch labor play on that little gem.
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The only factual post in this thread.
Now back to the uninformed speculation please.
No, no. my roast comment was also factual. :-)
and my post... I really did have 2 ton of red gum delivered!
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The only factual post in this thread.
Now back to the uninformed speculation please.
And so was mine! I'm not getting a 4% increase in my wages this year ... or any year in fact! :'( Very sad, but true! :'( :'( :'(
Kit_e
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If too many people take the opportunity to raise prices because they can, then we are stuffed... ,most people i know (and myself) have got pretty much sweet FA pay rises in the last 3 years while the cost of everything has gone up. I know we are becoming part of the problem but most of us have already stitched our wallets shut. Add to that some more price rises... I'll take to my wallet with a staple gun. If enough people take this approach then we are in deep shizzle.
Let's start a book... I reckon prices of everything will be up 10% by the end of the year.
Ain't REGRESS grand... walking around a dark house wearing an extra jumper and two pairs of socks. I miss electricity :'(
Later on I may even treat myself and turn the computer back on to read this thread.
mike
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Prices will be going up with or without a carbon tax as they have always done. I guess all price rises from now on will be attributed to the carbon tax ???. We as a nation are doing better financially than most others on the planet during the GFC but we still whinge and carry on. It seems like Tony Abbott; Alan Jones etc have been very successful with their scare campaign.
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If you're referring to "climategate" and the debacle about the stolen emails:
Eight committees investigated the allegations and published reports, finding no evidence of fraud or scientific misconduct. The Muir Russell report stated, however, "We do find that there has been a consistent pattern of failing to display the proper degree of openness, both on the part of CRU scientists and on the part of the UEA. The scientific consensus that global warming is occurring as a result of human activity remained unchanged at the end of the investigations.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climatic_Research_Unit_email_controversy)
Sorry but I will take a USA senate report over wiki any day... Read the emails and see for yourself what is discussed.
While there are minor errors in An Inconvenient Truth, the main truths presented - evidence to show mankind is causing global warming and its various impacts is consistent with peer reviewed science. The judge that sat on this case (Justice Barton) said the film was "broadly accurate" in its presentation of climate change. Watch the movie and you will probably realise it's not as evil as it's made out to be.
Minor...yeah right....
http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/monckton/goreerrors.html (http://scienceandpublicpolicy.org/monckton/goreerrors.html)
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/05/al-gores-movie/ (http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2006/05/al-gores-movie/)
Oh and considering he got SUED for the errors by 3000 scientists I think really the movie can be taken with a grain of salt.
** Al Gore Sued for Global Warming Lies by 30,000 scientists and Weather Channel Founder!!! ** (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VR4oIZ0k2d0#)
http://www.marketwatch.com/Community/groups/us-politics/topics/al-gore-being-sued-weather (http://www.marketwatch.com/Community/groups/us-politics/topics/al-gore-being-sued-weather)
It's well accepted by climate scientists that CO2 causes global warming - a lot of the more vocal "denialist "agree on this also. The argument now is more about climate "sensitivity", or in simple terms, how much CO2 is too much, and what exactly will be the ramifications.
Sorry but if you read the papers a lot of the climate scientists are BACKING away from the outlandish claims of the past, well those that are not being paid by the greenies anyways.
http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/10/hansen-and-schmidt-of-nasa-giss-under-fire-engineers-scientists-astronauts-ask-nasa-administration-to-look-at-emprical-evidence-rather-than-climate-models/ (http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/04/10/hansen-and-schmidt-of-nasa-giss-under-fire-engineers-scientists-astronauts-ask-nasa-administration-to-look-at-emprical-evidence-rather-than-climate-models/)
Which means exactly what?..... The fact that in the past 150 years the global temperature has risen at a rate faster than in any other time in the earths history must mean something. Just because there is a cooling trend for a couple of years, it doesn't mean you dismiss the last 148 years! Yes, the average global temperature fuctuates year by year, but the long term trend is that it's heating, and will continue heating. You need to look at all the available data and make an informed decision, not just look at a few years.
It means that although the amount of co2 has doubled in 150 years we have not seen the drastic warming some fools claimed we would. Oh the claim of the "fastest rise in history" is debunked you know that yeah? It was called the medieval warm period...
Now a final point for you to consider is the fact that 97% of TOTAL co2 output is natural...yep our man made pissy 3% is going to do what?
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I have my own business with three employees,they already want more money to counter the carbon tax and my supliers have already noted prices will rise.So all i can do is put my prices up which will then force my customers to put up there prices and so on and so on.I just want to go camping - for a long time.
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Hi there Time,
Good to see that someone has bothered to see how Carbon pricing really should work. To many gullible people listen to the doomsayers, that because the "tax" on the top 500 producers - Minners & Electricity Producers (NOT SUPPLIERS) that all costs will rise to unpayable levels. Just today I went to buy a coffee and was told it has risen 50c due to the carbon tax.(electricity and water price rise)
See below as posted before on cost to the Power producers!!
The price your power supplier pays to buy power from a generators is about 1.3-2.0 cents/kWh. The supplier charges us around 31-33cents/kWh.That's OK they have to maintain the poles & wires. When the Carbon Tax is implemented your bill should only rise around 0.5cents/kWh as the tax is added only to the cost for the coal, so generators can produce the power! BUT we are told our bills will double in the next couple of years so who is putting the cost up ?
I also have no affiliation with the Gov. but do work in the Power Industry & have worked in Minning also that's why I can understand the cost assosiated with this so called Carbon Tax.
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Don't panic about being ripped of by companies using the carbon tax as an excuse to raise prices. The government will no doubt protect us just like the do with the oil companies & fuel prices >:( The carbon tax is not the only problem either. Check this out SAY NO TO THE DRINK CONTAINER TAX (http://www.responsiblerecycling.org.au/)
I also would be surprised if Abbot repeals this tax. If anything at all he may reduce it. Just my opinion for what it's worth.
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Richard
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A little off topic
Was watching ABC this morning and they were saying over the next three years they will bring in about 13 plus Billion on the Miners Resource Rent Tax....
Oh well that should cover all the illegal queue jumping boat peoples expenses and the cost of our resources rescuing them...
While there kicking out pensioners from homes (public housing) there been in for 50 years plus so they can home these queue jumpers...
X1,000,000,000
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Show me a business that will be happy to see their profit margin lower this year because of paying another Tax !
That's right they won't ... they will either up the price of their product to cover the tax meaning we pay more at the end of the line .
Or they will reduce the wages of those working there . Until it is so low that no Australians will work there , and their workforce will be entirely of foreigners .
What a joke .... Can't they come up with something that will really benefit the Aussie Battler !
And don't get me started on the Government saying their unemployment figures are ok . They have now idea how many out there are contractors , and only get a few hours work each day , by tightarse companies who don't want employees and just want an overload of contractors .
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What a joke .... Can't they come up with something that will really benefit the Aussie Battler !
Joolia is the PM for the battlers and Swan thinks he is Robin Hood ::)
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Our power costs in Tassie have just gone up 7% to cover the carbon tax, most of our power is generated through hydro so they will actually get carbon credits but we get slugged with a tax.
How does this work.
Beat me to it!
And now for my uninformed opinion..... (should have paid more attention in Economics class at Uni :cheers:).........
If the top 500 polluters have to pay a carbon tax (or whatever else anyone would like to call it) and they can pass this cost onto consumers, then their cost is offset by more revenue. So where is the incentive to produce less carbon?
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Joolia is the PM for the battlers and Swan thinks he is Robin Hood ::)
Yes, but when there is nobody left to go through sherwood forest because they're broke or went elsewhere, what then?
The peasants will be greater in numbers, pregnant, hungry, lazy and her majesty will have no more mead and chickens to throw to them?
Robin hood will be tired and probably sick of being the only one working (albeit illegally and dishonestly - but it is politics so its ok to lie and cheat)
What will the have nots do then???
Oh woe is the day when one has to rise to the sun and toil in the fields to get food for the wenches and children.
Oh heavens above, we will have to hold a meeting on what to do.
Perhaps somewhere safe, like redhill. Lets call it a junket free lunch training exercise consultation conference.
We will gather, drink the reserves, baste the beasts and discuss perhaps for a minute whos fault it is. Lay the blame, shout and scream, promise to whip them, then rise to the next day.
A peasant can guide the steeds back to capitol hill where we can show victory and triumph over our achievement.
(Please fret nay - Oh wise ones.....By the time anyone realises we just got pissed and talked crapola at their expense, we will have devised some rebate to throw some corn into their haysacks and hold them till we triumph again at the next election with promises of future glory)
Now kiddies off to bed, and I'll go take my medication.
Sleep well, it could be worse, and trust me, shes trying to make it so.
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So where is the incentive to produce less carbon?
Oh..................is that what its about ??? ??? ??? ???
:-[ :-[ :-[
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PMSL @ briann532 :cup:
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Beat me to it!
And now for my uninformed opinion..... (should have paid more attention in Economics class at Uni :cheers:).........
If the top 500 polluters have to pay a carbon tax (or whatever else anyone would like to call it) and they can pass this cost onto consumers, then their cost is offset by more revenue. So where is the incentive to produce less carbon?
That's pretty much it. And the top biggest polluters are power stations so we will all pay. What annoys me is that if I buy a locally made product I will pay more for labour and now more on carbon tax. If I buy that same product from China I will pay less for labour and no tax as the even the shipping of that product to Australian shores is carbon tax exempt? How does this support any industry here at all?
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If the top 500 polluters have to pay a carbon tax (or whatever else anyone would like to call it) and they can pass this cost onto consumers, then their cost is offset by more revenue. So where is the incentive to produce less carbon?
I'm not a fan of the carbon tax.
In theory, a price on carbon makes renewable energy sources more competitive. Sure, those big 500 polluters will increase prices to cover their increased costs (probably more than!), but at some point the price on carbon will allow them to switch to a renewable source of energy (or their competitors will).
Mind you, I think the price on carbon will have to increase a hell of a lot for that to happen.
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What annoys me is that if I buy a locally made product I will pay more for labour and now more on carbon tax. If I buy that same product from China I will pay less for labour and no tax as the even the shipping of that product to Australian shores is carbon tax exempt? How does this support any industry here at all?
Very good point. This is what scares me the most.
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Mind you, on the other side of the coin, it does bother me when people talk about China polluting more than us.
Of course they (as a country) do! There's 1.3 billion of them.
I think it'd be a bit cheeky to ask them to lower their emissions below ours.
When you turn it around and focus on emissions per person, we're #11 (18.9 tonnes per capita) while China is #78 (5.3 tonnes per capita).
Sure, if we reduce our countries emissions it will have a negligible direct impact on the global problem, but it's a bit hard to say "5.3 tonnes per person is too high" while we're at 18.9!!!
And the fact that a portion of their emissions is in the manufacture of goods we consume doesn't help.
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Very good point. This is what scares me the most.
If this was really about reducing our carbon footprint you would consider and tax appropriately all good, but because of free trade we can't. China will introduce the carbon tax in 2015 and will fix it at $2. So who is laughing all the way to the bank? Not us...
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(http://www.abc.net.au/news/linkableblob/2788516/data/emissions-grapha-image-data.png)
The average household will be compensated by more than the expected price rises, so this is nice in theory.
But ...
"Leaked research prepared by accounting firm Deloittes for Federal Resources Minister Martin Ferguson estimates a carbon price would need to be $40 a tonne even to drive a shift from coal power to gas-fired power. [...] This means it will do nothing to encourage renewable energy, like wind and solar power, which would need a far higher price to get a look in. It will not close a single coal fired power station."
http://www.solidarity.net.au/35/carbon-tax-wont-stop-new-coal-power/ (http://www.solidarity.net.au/35/carbon-tax-wont-stop-new-coal-power/)
So we'd need to go from $23/tonne to $40/tonne to move to gas ... I'd like to know how much higher it would have to go to encourage the big power generators to move over to renewables.
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For those who care, the pre carbon tax roast was great. Although the post tax veggies were not the best. That was put down to the pre carbon tax gas in my weber q.
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Sorry but I will take a USA senate report over wiki any day... Read the emails and see for yourself what is discussed.
LOL....Written like a true denialist! Dismiss any facts,evidence or data that doesn't support your argument, and simply use whatever information or source that comes to hand that does support your case. Can I suggest perhaps you read page 34 of the senate report yourself (the conclusion), paying particular attention to the comment; "The next phase of the Minority‘s investigation will explore whether any such violations occurred". You do realise the senate report was pure speculation at that point, and simply suggested further investigation of the leaked emails was required? It's not any form of conclusive evidence whatsoever!
Oh and considering he got SUED for the errors by 3000 scientists I think really the movie can be taken with a grain of salt.
So Al Gore got sued did he?..... That threat of legal action to Al Gore was made 4 years ago, so what ever happened? Please let us all know what the outcome of the trial was..... ;D
Oh the claim of the "fastest rise in history" is debunked you know that yeah? It was called the medieval warm period...
Debunked?
"Despite substantial uncertainties, especially for the period prior to 1600 when data are scarce, the warmest period of the last 2,000 years prior to the 20th century very likely occurred between 950 and 1100, but temperatures were probably between 0.1 °C and 0.2 °C below the 1961 to 1990 mean and significantly below the level shown by instrumental data after 1980".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warming (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medieval_Warming)
http://www.skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm (http://www.skepticalscience.com/medieval-warm-period.htm)
Now a final point for you to consider is the fact that 97% of TOTAL co2 output is natural...yep our man made pissy 3% is going to do what?
It's 3% extra added on top of the naturally emitted CO2 - year on year, and every year the amount of CO2 emitted by humans is increasing. Some of this is naturally absorbed, but around 60% isn't, hence why ppm CO2 in the atmosphere is increasing...... unless of course you are going to dispute that CO2 in the atmosphere is not increasing! ::)
I'm no greenie, nor am I trying to change your opinion on this subject, I'm simply pointing out that the majority of what you have posted to date is neither accurate, factual or supported by mainstream science.
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you will not pay a carbon tax..
Their costs may/will filter down through the products/services they produce
So companies thru the goodness of their shareholders will wear the costs?
(http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_m-1u8x8ieQY/S5KzYuwZ1BI/AAAAAAAAAnY/4G0SY37aAec/s320/77ToothFairy.jpg)
The only reason we have a carbon tax is because gillard needed the greens to form a government,she could not care about the enviroment only about being pm of this country she's stuffing.Bob Brown quit as he knows the backlash is going to kill both labor & the greens.
We have a winner.
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mm didnt want to get into this debate BUT..the carbon tax will not stop other countries polluting but will reduce Australia's pollution and over time hopefully see more investment in green energy etc that is a good thing...I know you will go you hippy aint gonna happen. Have a look at how many people now have solar on their campers and homes...I have both and apart from the savings I reckon it is great to make my own electricity...5 or 10 years ago, the cost was prohibitive and never going to happen...like computers it will only get cheaper.
It will make the companies that pollut pay more, that is a good thing....they will either pass it onto their customers and customers will go somewere else or invest in cheaper alternatives, that is a good thing.
I am no scientist but if it reduces the amount of pollution in Australia and makes it a better environment for my children, that is a good thing and I am happy to pay a bit extra for that.
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Nowhere on the goverments own website of harmful "pollutants" is co2 mentioned. It isnt a pollutant. Its a natural gas that all life in one way or another depends on.
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It will make the companies that pollut pay more, that is a good thing
The only companies that will pay more are the few who cant go offshore.. like the powerstations...
Everything else has/will go to China and countries like this, where they dont give a Shit and pay 1/1903280892309548230895th the wage.
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No lost that is correct but people will reduce their electricity useage by putting in solar or truning stuff off...it is allready happening....in the current economic climate if companies are going to put up their prices and then blame it on the carbon tax, as they seem to want to do, people will just buy it from elsewere.
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or turning stuff off...
All sounds well and good, but that's just not gonna happen in our household... or many others I reckon. It's like saying you're not going to use as much petrol cos it's dearer.
LJ
(DAMN I entered into the debate)
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Lol at entering debate, I know what you mean.. I have three kids and have trained them to turn stuff off and put in solar, instant heating etc..I hear people power bills and I cant beleive it ($1k for a quarter), if my bills were that high, stuff would be turned off or be selling whatever it is, so it couldnt be turned on!!...The power companies have been jacking up their prices the day since the Government sold it to them, the carbon tax is just another excuse they will use, similiar to when the GST came in.
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I have three kids and have trained them to... put in solar, instant heating etc..
:o Wow your kids are a lot smarter than mine. My eldest is only just starting to learn his timetables.
I suppose it can't hurt to start them early on a trade though.
;D
LJ
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:o Wow your kids are a lot smarter than mine.
Same... I've tried...
would be easier to make Jooooolia popular or to stop bullShitting than train my kids to turn a light off.
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mm not sure they are smarter, maybe I am better at bribery/blackmail, ie if you dont turn that off it goes in the bin....keep wasting my $ on water/lights/electricity/TV and there will be no $ for footy cards/make up/Toy Story crap you want..or my all time favourite, we are poor we have no money so ask your grandparents
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So we'd need to go from $23/tonne to $40/tonne to move to gas ... I'd like to know how much higher it would have to go to encourage the big power generators to move over to renewables.
And the current European Price for a tonne of carbon. About 8.5 eruos (about $10). But jee I've noticed who clean the air is is the last two days. Oh hang on, its got nothing to do with cleaning up the environment has it.
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If the top 500 polluters have to pay a carbon tax (or whatever else anyone would like to call it) and they can pass this cost onto consumers, then their cost is offset by more revenue. So where is the incentive to produce less carbon?
x2
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Quote from: D4D on Yesterday at 21:36:26
Joolia is the PM for the battlers and Swan thinks he is Robin Hood ::)
Yes, but when there is nobody left to go through sherwood forest because they're broke or went elsewhere, what then?
The peasants will be greater in numbers, pregnant, hungry, lazy and her majesty will have no more mead and chickens to throw to them?
Robin hood will be tired and probably sick of being the only one working (albeit illegally and dishonestly - but it is politics so its ok to lie and cheat)
What will the have nots do then???
Oh woe is the day when one has to rise to the sun and toil in the fields to get food for the wenches and children.
Oh heavens above, we will have to hold a meeting on what to do.
Perhaps somewhere safe, like redhill. Lets call it a junket free lunch training exercise consultation conference.
We will gather, drink the reserves, baste the beasts and discuss perhaps for a minute whos fault it is. Lay the blame, shout and scream, promise to whip them, then rise to the next day.
A peasant can guide the steeds back to capitol hill where we can show victory and triumph over our achievement.
(Please fret nay - Oh wise ones.....By the time anyone realises we just got pissed and talked crapola at their expense, we will have devised some rebate to throw some corn into their haysacks and hold them till we triumph again at the next election with promises of future glory)
Now kiddies off to bed, and I'll go take my medication.
Sleep well, it could be worse, and trust me, shes trying to make it so.
Very Shakespearian :cup:
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(http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/411931_487688684590601_1579581246_o.jpg)
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No lost that is correct but people will reduce their electricity useage by putting in solar or truning stuff off...it is allready happening....in the current economic climate if companies are going to put up their prices and then blame it on the carbon tax, as they seem to want to do, people will just buy it from elsewere.
The problem with that is, there is more energy used in producing these panels than they will ever save. There is no such thing as perpetual energy.
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If you can't (or won't) stop your kids from wasting electricity it can only mean one of two things.
- You can't control your kids
- Electricity is too cheap for you to care about it
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mm didnt want to get into this debate BUT..the carbon tax will not stop other countries polluting but will reduce Australia's pollution and over time hopefully see more investment in green energy etc that is a good thing...I know you will go you hippy aint gonna happen. Have a look at how many people now have solar on their campers and homes...I have both and apart from the savings I reckon it is great to make my own electricity...5 or 10 years ago, the cost was prohibitive and never going to happen...like computers it will only get cheaper.
It will make the companies that pollut pay more, that is a good thing....they will either pass it onto their customers and customers will go somewere else or invest in cheaper alternatives, that is a good thing.
I am no scientist but if it reduces the amount of pollution in Australia and makes it a better environment for my children, that is a good thing and I am happy to pay a bit extra for that.
How is "customers going elsewhere" a good thing???
Bill
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Now a final point for you to consider is the fact that 97% of TOTAL co2 output is natural...yep our man made pissy 3% is going to do what?
Actually I think 3% is a lot. And it doesn't stop there. It's not just about the CO2 we emit, we're also responsible for significantly reducing (through deforestation) the capacity of the earth to turn the CO2 back into carbon and oxygen.
"The atmospheric CO2 concentration has increased by about 37% since pre-industrialization times" ... that's a very significant change.
And we shouldn't ignore "tipping point" factors too ... e.g. as the size of the ice caps shrink, less of the sun's energy is reflected back into space, causing the arctic (/antarctic) seas to warm, melting more ice which accelerates the process.
How much have the ice caps shrunk already? Check this out: http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/thick-melt.html (http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/thick-melt.html).
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If you can't (or won't) stop your kids from wasting electricity it can only mean one of two things.
- You can't control your kids
- Electricity is too cheap for you to care about it
Yes AND yes
LJ
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Actually I think 3% is a lot. And it doesn't stop there. It's not just about the CO2 we emit, we're also responsible for significantly reducing (through deforestation) the capacity of the earth to turn the CO2 back into carbon and oxygen.
"The atmospheric CO2 concentration has increased by about 37% since pre-industrialization times" ... that's a very significant change.
And we shouldn't ignore "tipping point" factors too ... e.g. as the size of the ice caps shrink, less of the sun's energy is reflected back into space, causing the arctic (/antarctic) seas to warm, melting more ice which accelerates the process.
How much have the ice caps shrunk already? Check this out: http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/thick-melt.html (http://www.nasa.gov/topics/earth/features/thick-melt.html).
3% is lots....
Quick stop farting
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The way I see it, the more people move away from coal power the dearer it'll become for a period of time. Companies will increase tariffs to compensate for the loss of revenue.
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What's all this rubbish about carbon and the environment?
Make the "rich", aka Joe Average, pay more through an indirect tax and redistribute it to the poor.
They have handed out so much money that now you can get Benefits on $100k as long as you pop out some kiddies. No wonder we all feel entitled. Probably 60% of society is on some sort of benefit. The other 38% are sick of paying for it and the top 2% don't give a ferkle.
Aussie Battler. What does that even mean anymore?
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Well if the government was that concerned about the effects of pollution on the global enviornment they would stop the sale of our coal to china where it makes more pollution than we care to think about. I'm sure they are'nt going to do that are they which makes them a bunch of theiving hyprocites and this so called "carbon tax "just another form of indirect taxation. >:(
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They have handed out so much money that now you can get Benefits on $100k as long as you pop out some kiddies.
mate of mine is renting a house (DDR knows him), to a single mum..
She works 3 days, and is on benefits for the rest, and her income is $1100 a week...
Wish I got that for 3 days work..
Well if the government was that concerned about the effects of pollution on the global enviornment they would stop the sale of our coal to china where it makes more pollution than we care to think about. I'm sure they are'nt going to do that are they which makes them a bunch of theiving hyprocites and this so called "carbon tax "just another form of indirect taxation. >:(
See more people are understanding it...
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https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=490055971020443&set=a.223592677666775.73092.223583594334350&type=1&ref=nf (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=490055971020443&set=a.223592677666775.73092.223583594334350&type=1&ref=nf)
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When your family, friends or associates cannot explain why they voted Labor, give them this list. Then they can then pick a reason from this "TOP 12".
1. I voted Labor because I love the fact that I can now marry whomsoever and whatever I want. I've decided to marry my German Shepherd dog.
2. I voted Labor because I believe the oil companies' profits of 4% on petrol is obscene, but the government taxing the same fuel at 35% isn't. The double whammy of 10% GST after that is only fair. The Government must have the money for welfare and anything to stop the use of motor vehicles is laudable.
3. I voted Labor because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would. The Carbon Tax, pink bats in every roof (to save the world), the Education revolution, the NBN, money to the IMF and the EU, helping unfortunate Islamic refugees (who always have no papers or passports) into the privileges of the Australian welfare system, running a fair Justice system (without favour) and giving the Trade Unions a fair go - against rich, foreign owned, greedy and domineering Companies. These are all sound policies to redistribute wealth fairly and empower those not yet on full entitlements.
4. I voted Labor because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it. Political correctness must overcome the racists who dislike illegal immigrants, angry mobs, global warming deniers and other right wing extremists.
5. I voted Labor because I'm way too silly and irresponsible to own a gun, (and certainly not allowed by Australian law), and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers, thugs and thieves.
6. I voted Labor because I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius. I believe that it will never rain properly again, that Global warming will kill us all unless we stop using fossil fuels. I am terrified of the prospect of the sea levels being 30 metres higher in 20 years. Tim Flannery is my idea of a new generation man. Always accurate and honest -- just like our PM.
7. I voted Labor because I'm not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all convicted criminals alive.
8. I voted Labor because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and social security benefits, and we should take the social security away from those who have spent a lifetime paying into it.
9. I voted Labor because I believe that businesses should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the Greens see fit.
10. I voted Labor because I believe Left Wing and Green judges need to rewrite the Australian Constitution and regulatory law books every few days to suit some fringe weirdos who would never be able to get their agendas past the voters.
11. I voted Labor because I think that it's better to pay billions for oil and petrol to people who really hate us, but not to drill more of our own because it might upset some endangered beetle, turtle or fish.
12. I voted Labor because my head is so firmly planted up my rear end that it is totally unlikely that I will ever be able to entertain another point of view
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;D
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I actually thought you were serious, until I read point 1. If you were serious point 1 would have read.
I voted Labor because I love the fact that I can now marry whomsoever and whatever I want. I've decided to marry my Jeep :)
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I actually thought you were serious, until I read point 1. If you were serious point 1 would have read.
I voted Labor because I love the fact that I can now marry whomsoever and whatever I want. I've decided to marry my Jeep :)
But bigamy is still illegal mate....and the mrs would do a bobbit on me lol
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When your family, friends or associates cannot explain why they voted Labor, give them this list. Then they can then pick a reason from this "TOP 12".
1. I voted Labor because I love the fact that I can now marry whomsoever and whatever I want. I've decided to marry my German Shepherd dog.
2. I voted Labor because I believe the oil companies' profits of 4% on petrol is obscene, but the government taxing the same fuel at 35% isn't. The double whammy of 10% GST after that is only fair. The Government must have the money for welfare and anything to stop the use of motor vehicles is laudable.
3. I voted Labor because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would. The Carbon Tax, pink bats in every roof (to save the world), the Education revolution, the NBN, money to the IMF and the EU, helping unfortunate Islamic refugees (who always have no papers or passports) into the privileges of the Australian welfare system, running a fair Justice system (without favour) and giving the Trade Unions a fair go - against rich, foreign owned, greedy and domineering Companies. These are all sound policies to redistribute wealth fairly and empower those not yet on full entitlements.
4. I voted Labor because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it. Political correctness must overcome the racists who dislike illegal immigrants, angry mobs, global warming deniers and other right wing extremists.
5. I voted Labor because I'm way too silly and irresponsible to own a gun, (and certainly not allowed by Australian law), and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers, thugs and thieves.
6. I voted Labor because I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius. I believe that it will never rain properly again, that Global warming will kill us all unless we stop using fossil fuels. I am terrified of the prospect of the sea levels being 30 metres higher in 20 years. Tim Flannery is my idea of a new generation man. Always accurate and honest -- just like our PM.
7. I voted Labor because I'm not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all convicted criminals alive.
8. I voted Labor because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and social security benefits, and we should take the social security away from those who have spent a lifetime paying into it.
9. I voted Labor because I believe that businesses should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the Greens see fit.
10. I voted Labor because I believe Left Wing and Green judges need to rewrite the Australian Constitution and regulatory law books every few days to suit some fringe weirdos who would never be able to get their agendas past the voters.
11. I voted Labor because I think that it's better to pay billions for oil and petrol to people who really hate us, but not to drill more of our own because it might upset some endangered beetle, turtle or fish.
12. I voted Labor because my head is so firmly planted up my rear end that it is totally unlikely that I will ever be able to entertain another point of view
Mate, you forgot one, "I voted Labour because i don't drink TEA "!.... :o :o ;D
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38% are sick of paying for it
Aussie Battler. What does that even mean anymore?
I must be part of that 38% ... no kids, single, paying off a mortgage, I own my 1/2 of a camper trailer and I own my car ... I don't owe anyone anything ... except the bank for my house. I receive no suplimentary income from any government department or anywhere else, and haven't done so since I got my first full time job. It's taken me well over 25 hard working years to get where I am today and I'm proud of myself. I make do with what I have and I do it hard sometimes. Have done so all my life. Just how I was bought up I guess. I haven't gone and gotten myself pregnant with a few kids to live off the hard working benefits of anyone else. I simply could never afford them, so went without.
This carbon "whatever" is going to make it that much harder for me ... that's what I think.
As for the term Aussie Battler ... I think it refers to days gone by. Days when it wasn't so easy to make ends meet and you were more willing to be responsible for yourself, your family and even your neighbours ... when the government wasn't so willing to give hand outs left, right and center ...
Kit_e
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I must be part of that 38% ... no kids, single, paying off a mortgage, I own my 1/2 of a camper trailer and I own my car ... I don't owe anyone anything ... except the bank for my house. I receive no suplimentary income from any government department or anywhere else, and haven't done so since I got my first full time job. It's taken me well over 25 hard working years to get where I am today and I'm proud of myself. I make do with what I have and I do it hard sometimes. Have done so all my life. Just how I was bought up I guess. I haven't gone and gotten myself pregnant with a few kids to live off the hard working benefits of anyone else. I simply could never afford them, so went without.
This carbon "whatever" is going to make it that much harder for me ... that's what I think.
As for the term Aussie Battler ... I think it refers to days gone by. Days when it wasn't so easy to make ends meet and you were more willing to be responsible for yourself, your family and even your neighbours ... when the government wasn't so willing to give hand outs left, right and center ...
Kit_e
No Hecs loans Kit_e?...
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(http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/602561_333059286768981_1307391333_n.jpg)
This is the best thing to come, LIEbor and the greens will be smashed at the next election.
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Mate, you forgot one, "I voted Labour because i don't drink TEA "!.... :o
:o ;D
Come on, I think you are being way to harsh on Labor. Name one thing that they have stuffed up since coming in government? Better still to save time, is there one thing they haven't stuffed up?
Also, I might add, we had the watershed 2020 Summit - millions of dollars spent to give us an extra cartoon channel on the ABC.
Paul
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Come on, I think you are being way to harsh on Labor. Name one thing that they have stuffed up since coming in government? Better still to save time, is there one thing they haven't stuffed up?
Also, I might add, we had the watershed 2020 Summit - millions of dollars spent to give us an extra cartoon channel on the ABC.
Paul
Paul, I'm to sure if that one went over your head, or your a very clever man ..lol... :cheers:
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If joolia wanted to be remembered for doing some good, she should have introduce an IQ test
before your allowed to vote.
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When your family, friends or associates cannot explain why they voted Labor, give them this list. Then they can then pick a reason from this "TOP 12".
1. I voted Labor because I love the fact that I can now marry whomsoever and whatever I want. I've decided to marry my German Shepherd dog.
2. I voted Labor because I believe the oil companies' profits of 4% on petrol is obscene, but the government taxing the same fuel at 35% isn't. The double whammy of 10% GST after that is only fair. The Government must have the money for welfare and anything to stop the use of motor vehicles is laudable.
3. I voted Labor because I believe the government will do a better job of spending the money I earn than I would. The Carbon Tax, pink bats in every roof (to save the world), the Education revolution, the NBN, money to the IMF and the EU, helping unfortunate Islamic refugees (who always have no papers or passports) into the privileges of the Australian welfare system, running a fair Justice system (without favour) and giving the Trade Unions a fair go - against rich, foreign owned, greedy and domineering Companies. These are all sound policies to redistribute wealth fairly and empower those not yet on full entitlements.
4. I voted Labor because Freedom of Speech is fine as long as nobody is offended by it. Political correctness must overcome the racists who dislike illegal immigrants, angry mobs, global warming deniers and other right wing extremists.
5. I voted Labor because I'm way too silly and irresponsible to own a gun, (and certainly not allowed by Australian law), and I know that my local police are all I need to protect me from murderers, thugs and thieves.
6. I voted Labor because I believe that people who can't tell us if it will rain on Friday can tell us that the polar ice caps will melt away in ten years if I don't start driving a Prius. I believe that it will never rain properly again, that Global warming will kill us all unless we stop using fossil fuels. I am terrified of the prospect of the sea levels being 30 metres higher in 20 years. Tim Flannery is my idea of a new generation man. Always accurate and honest -- just like our PM.
7. I voted Labor because I'm not concerned about millions of babies being aborted so long as we keep all convicted criminals alive.
8. I voted Labor because I think illegal aliens have a right to free health care, education, and social security benefits, and we should take the social security away from those who have spent a lifetime paying into it.
9. I voted Labor because I believe that businesses should not be allowed to make profits for themselves. They need to break even and give the rest away to the government for redistribution as the Greens see fit.
10. I voted Labor because I believe Left Wing and Green judges need to rewrite the Australian Constitution and regulatory law books every few days to suit some fringe weirdos who would never be able to get their agendas past the voters.
11. I voted Labor because I think that it's better to pay billions for oil and petrol to people who really hate us, but not to drill more of our own because it might upset some endangered beetle, turtle or fish.
12. I voted Labor because my head is so firmly planted up my rear end that it is totally unlikely that I will ever be able to entertain another point of view
So from that we can then deduce if you vote Liberal you get emails of originally American sourced chain emails and think they are true.
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looking at my latest gas bill I caused 200kg of carbon to be emitted, my electricity usage caused 922kg. Over a year thats about 4.5 tonnes of carbon that I caused to be emitted. At $23 a tonne, assuming the cost will be passed straight onto me thats an extra $103 a year straight up. Luckily there are only the three of us at home and not big energy users. My assistance package $0
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No carbon tax on sheep
http://www.news.com.au/national/pressure-on-as-nz-turns-back-on-carbon-pricing/story-fndo4eg9-1226415848921 (http://www.news.com.au/national/pressure-on-as-nz-turns-back-on-carbon-pricing/story-fndo4eg9-1226415848921)
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This thread reminds me of the John Laws Show or Allan Jones talk back or even Jerry Spinger. Uninformed and ill-informed opinion along with a few generalisations and the odd sweeping statement make for some very scary reading.
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No Hecs loans Kit_e?...
Nope. I pay my own way ;D
Kit_e
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Nope. I pay my own way ;D
Kit_e
;D
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This thread reminds me of the John Laws Show or Allan Jones talk back or even Jerry Spinger. Uninformed and ill-informed opinion along with a few generalisations and the odd sweeping statement make for some very scary reading.
Scary!?!? Scary is a 70% increase in electricity costs on the last 5 years. And another 20% as of carbon tax day. Let's generalise it to 90% over 6 years. Wages over the last TEN years 58%.
Rents and Mortgages. OUCH!
The fact is that the LAST thing our economy and OUR PEOPLE need is more increases in the cost of living.
Kit_e... if you take a way the three $63 dollar cheques that the govt provided for having kids then I am part of the 38% too.
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Scary!?!? Scary is a 70% increase in electricity costs on the last 5 years. And another 20% as of carbon tax day. Let's generalise it to 90% over 6 years. Wages over the last TEN years 58%.
Rents and Mortgages. OUCH!
The fact is that the LAST thing our economy and OUR PEOPLE need is more increases in the cost of living.
Kit_e... if you take a way the three $63 dollar cheques that the govt provided for having kids then I am part of the 38% too.
Yawnnnnn
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Yawnnnnn
Thats why this country is going to crap....
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Yawnnnnn
Is that you Greg combet?
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Yawnnnnn
Is that you Greg combet?
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Yawnnnnn
If it is that boring then don't read and post useless replies. i.e. Stop trolling.
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If it is that boring then don't read and post useless replies. i.e. Stop trolling.
That accounts for 80% of the posts in this thread :)
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This thread reminds me of the John Laws Show or Allan Jones talk back or even Jerry Spinger. Uninformed and ill-informed opinion along with a few generalisations and the odd sweeping statement make for some very scary reading.
Regardless of the carbon tax facts, Julia lied to us all, or am I uniformed on this as well.
Trevor
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Joolia wanted to be PM that bad she got into bed with greens to secure her minority govt.
http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/election2010/7945914/pm-says-no-carbon-tax-under-her-govt (http://news.ninemsn.com.au/national/election2010/7945914/pm-says-no-carbon-tax-under-her-govt)
Mon Aug 16 2010
Prime Minister Julia Gillard has said there will not be a tax on carbon while she leads the federal government.
Deputy Prime Minister Wayne Swan last week said if Labor won the August 21 poll, there would not be a carbon tax during its next three years in power.
Ms Gillard seemed to go a step further on Monday.
"There will be no carbon tax under the government I lead," she told Network Ten.
"What we will do is we will tackle the challenge of climate change."
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Is that you Greg combet?
Yes, of course it is because if you don't want to join in with the crowd you must be from the "other side", I was waiting for the assumptions to come up, the ldt missing piece.
I could write you a novel whining about the injustices of the world and the injustices that governments of all persuasions have done, since governments were born. The fact that Turnbull as opposition leader was ready to sign off on this tax prior to being rolled but now stands there telling us it's no good. My personal journey of having my wages eaten away by greedy corporates and governments and on and on I could go and be accused of being a "red", a labor sympathiser or perhaps a red neck but the I would fit in.
But in the morning the sun will rise and life will continue and like so many of us we will suck it up and do what we have to and lie will go on.
Like I said I have already betrayed myself by commenting on this thread, I'm going back to my beer, my food and my trip planning before the commis take it away....
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Regardless of the carbon tax facts, Julia lied to us all, or am I uniformed on this as well.
Trevor
Probably, you are from Tasmania....whoops a generalisation...
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Regardless of the carbon tax facts, Julia lied to us all, or am I uniformed on this as well.
Trevor
WHAT?????????????????????????????? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
A politician lied. Oh My Godfather. How can this be?????
What is going to be done???????????? ??? ??? ???
Why isn't everyone outraged??????
:police: :police: :police: :police: :police: :police: :police: :police: :police: :police:
Ho hum - another lie - broken promise - or forgotten platform.
I honestly reckon if an independant ran at the moment with the slogan - I can't be as bad as the other two - they would win by a landslide............
Bring on some anarchy or at least a good assasination. Scare them about some consequences............
Oh well, back to reality.
Brian
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I love the ads on telly telling us about how great our the tax cuts are.
If you earn < $18000/yr you are $1830 better off
If you earn > $37000/yr you are $1078 better off (you lose $752 of what you gained initially)
If you earn > $80000/yr you are $3 better off (you lose $1075 of what you gained initially)
Given the average worker earns somewhere between $37000 and $80000 basically they changed the rates to make you think you got a pay rise when in fact you didn't.
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This thread reminds me of the John Laws Show or Allan Jones talk back or even Jerry Spinger. Uninformed and ill-informed opinion along with a few generalisations and the odd sweeping statement make for some very scary reading.
I agree. To think that the popular opinion supporting action against climate change at the 2007 election has been eroded by ill informed misinformation from an opposition leader hell bent on gaining power at any cost makes me wonder how easily led a large part of our population is. Add idiots like Allan Jones to the equation who do nothing but spread fear and hate, and look what the sheep of this nation do.... follow ???
Why don't we all wait a few months and see what happens before believing the propaganda and then make up our own minds.
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Yes, of course it is because if you don't want to join in with the crowd you must be from the "other side", I was waiting for the assumptions to come up, the ldt missing piece.
I could write you a novel whining about the injustices of the world and the injustices that governments of all persuasions have done, since governments were born. The fact that Turnbull as opposition leader was ready to sign off on this tax prior to being rolled but now stands there telling us it's no good. My personal journey of having my wages eaten away by greedy corporates and governments and on and on I could go and be accused of being a "red", a labor sympathiser or perhaps a red neck but the I would fit in.
But in the morning the sun will rise and life will continue and like so many of us we will suck it up and do what we have to and lie will go on.
Like I said I have already betrayed myself by commenting on this thread, I'm going back to my beer, my food and my trip planning before the commis take it away....
Last time I checked, this is a CT forum. I started this thread for sh!ts and giggles. Yes carbon is bad. Yes we need to reduce it. But unfortunately throwing money at it or taxing us wont solve it. Look at smokes, grog, etc.
She lied. Scientists were bribed, and WE are paying for this
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And if you feel do informed why are you here and not in Canberra or a lab somewhere??? Yes you have lowered your self to comment here. Stop trolling
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This has been done to death. No more of this is needed, let's get back to camping.......