MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: welchygq on April 01, 2012, 10:38:30 PM
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Ok so this goes out to the patrol drivers.
Has anyone weighed there set ups?
Was just looking at the patrol pitifull GVM and am now afraid to weigh mine. GVM is 3020kg, with a car that weighs 2400kg in factory trim, it doesnt leave much left over.
Anyone willing to post their weights?
Our Patrol has a fair bit of fruit - twin wheel carrier (with two wheels), steel bar and winch, roof rack, drawers, twin floor, long range tanks,50L water tank - then ontop of that you add 250kg of People/dogs.
also tow a camper so you also have the towball weight.
Anyone have a similar set up and have a weight?
Welchy
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Welchy,
Have you had your rear spring tower hats strengthened?
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Welchy,
Have you had your rear spring tower hats strengthened?
The superior bolt on kit is sitting in the shed - give me a couple of weeks ;D
Welchy
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A mate of mine weighed his at GU Patrol new years. His has a steel bar, winch, steel roof rack, him at about 100kg + 3 small kids and a 6.5 ltr chev diesel. Weighed in at 3245kg only 245kg over gvm and he still wants a rear bar.
I checked my Cruiser at the same time, with my kit, my kids and me but no wife or trailer it was 2970kg of its 3200kg gvm.
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Ok so this goes out to the patrol drivers.
Has anyone weighed there set ups?
Was just looking at the patrol pitifull GVM and am now afraid to weigh mine. GVM is 3020kg, with a car that weighs 2400kg in factory trim, it doesnt leave much left over.
Anyone willing to post their weights?
Our Patrol has a fair bit of fruit - twin wheel carrier (with two wheels), steel bar and winch, roof rack, drawers, twin floor, long range tanks,50L water tank - then ontop of that you add 250kg of People/dogs.
also tow a camper so you also have the towball weight.
Anyone have a similar set up and have a weight?
Welchy
Mine is similar to yours (99 petrol/gas wagon) minus rear bar and winch. 2.82T with half full tanks and only me in the car (100kg).
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200 series is similar but with bigger numbers.
Nominal kerb weight of 2700 kg, GVM of 3300 kg, similar payload ~ 600 kg.
Mines got steel bull bar & winch, spot lights, no 3rd row seats but full drawers. With me, empty fridge & full fuel, weighed in at 3200 kg! :o
Thank heavens for GVM upgrade to 3580 kg.
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200 series is similar but with bigger numbers.
Nominal kerb weight of 2700 kg, GVM of 3300 kg, similar payload ~ 600 kg.
Mines got steel bull bar & winch, spot lights, no 3rd row seats but full drawers. With me, empty fridge & full fuel, weighed in at 3200 kg! :o
Thank heavens for GVM upgrade to 3580 kg.
GVM upgrades can onyl be done before they are registered for the first time but arent they?
And i cant find one for a GU (coil sprung)
Welchy
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GVM upgrades can onyl be done before they are registered for the first time but arent they?
unless you find an engineer that has the data.. there was one in NSW that did plenty of ..... "engineer certs" north of sydney, but I think the RTA disagreed with him and he no longer does them...
I took a trip down the border track several years ago, and we stopped in a small place in SA, that had a weighbridge. All Patrols went over it, and from memory none were under legal limit that day... and none were close to "full" of fruit :(
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GVM upgrades can onyl be done before they are registered for the first time but arent they?
And i cant find one for a GU (coil sprung)
Welchy
No!
I had bought & paid for my Cruiser & registered it before it went to ARB for the GVM upgrade. There was an issue with the paperwork, because my Cruiser was one of the first 2009 upgrade models to be delivered, so ARB posted me the new compliance plate & paper work about a month after the GVM Upgrade was completed. All I had to do was fix the compliance plate.
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No!
I had bought & paid for my Cruiser & registered it before it went to ARB for the GVM upgrade. There was an issue with the paperwork, because my Cruiser was one of the first 2009 upgrade models to be delivered, so ARB posted me the new compliance plate & paper work about a month after the GVM Upgrade was completed. All I had to do was fix the compliance plate.
The issue is they need the "test results/data and specs"... Then it can be done after you have paid for rego.
This has been done to many cruisers, thus why its just a cake walk for them. Lucy on Exploroz has had it doen to his cruiser using data several years old. What the *exact* specs of all the data is I couldnt get out of the engineers I called. There is fark all of the brake tests, etc data for GU patrols.
The main issue is if you have an auto, the data for manuals is no use to u. if you have a 3.0 the 4.2/2.8/4.8 data is no good to either. This is where the costs blows off the scales.
This is what Ateco told me, and why they werent interested at the time in looking into it for the Patrol, their priority at the time was the 200 series with its none existant weight alowance. "in the future they *may* look into it for the 3.0 GU..."
Some other info here -> http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-patrol-gu-gr-10/increasing-gvm-gu-17506/?highlight=gvm (http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-patrol-gu-gr-10/increasing-gvm-gu-17506/?highlight=gvm)
It would be nice if someone has paid for it all in Vic now, I'd tag off those specs myself, but the track hire alone blew it out of the water.
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Geez can of worms here - thats what i get for trying to do the right thing hey?
I guess i will have to put the car on a serious diet to remain legal. - wonder if drilling a Shit load of holes in the chassis will effect my road legality? ;D
Welchy
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I guess i will have to put the car on a serious diet to remain legal. - wonder if drilling a **** load of holes in the chassis will effect my road legality? ;D
There has been discussions at one of the 4wd clubs that insurance companies are now paying LOTS of attention to GVM after acccidents and have actually started NOT paying for fat arse 4wd's...
So what is the solution when there is no way on earth to increase GVM ???
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I used to own a 99 2.8 wagon, I weighed it once out of interest came in at 3060kg with a gvm of 2960.
This was with 2 passengers, full fuel tank, winch, bullbar, sliders, rear bar and drawer system, needless to say I was shocked, I would easily been running over 3.5t when fully loaded up.
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There has been discussions at one of the 4wd clubs that insurance companies are now paying LOTS of attention to GVM after acccidents and have actually started NOT paying for fat arse 4wd's...
Wouldn't suprise me.
So what is the solution when there is no way on earth to increase GVM ???
Buy a vehicle that is capable of carrying the accessories you want, or fit less extras.
There's also axle loadings to think about too. My Pajero is well under GVM in all conditions (i.e. towing with all the family on board and a long range tank full of fuel) but I cannot fit a winch with steel rope to the bullbar without exceeding the front axle loading limit (steel bar and dual batteries already fitted). Dyneema would be my only option. Axle loads are more of a warranty issue than a legality issue like GVM though I'd say.
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Buy a vehicle that is capable of carrying the accessories you want
not always an option
There's also axle loadings to think about too. My Pajero is well under GVM in all conditions (i.e. towing with all the family on board and a long range tank full of fuel) but I cannot fit a winch with steel rope to the bullbar without exceeding the front axle loading limit (steel bar and dual batteries already fitted). Dyneema would be my only option. Axle loads are more of a warranty issue than a legality issue like GVM though I'd say.
But you can up the GVM (same on nearly any 4wd) before rego by just changing suspension - same brakes and tyres...
Why can I not do this after rego by using the same parts ??? ???
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I put mine, 2011 GU 3.0 CRD, on the weigh bridge a couple of weeks ago full loaded. I was sitting at 2850 kg. I dont have a rear bar or water tank, but i do have rock sliders and guards, as well as a cargo barrier and draw system. I am going to put a rear bar and one tyre on it with the duel ful jerry carrier. I hope that it wont be over weight. Even if it is i am still getting it done.
Regards Rod.
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But you can up the GVM (same on nearly any 4wd) before rego by just changing suspension - same brakes and tyres...
Why can I not do this after rego by using the same parts ??? ???
Well there is more to it than just suspension, but I can't answer the "post registration" question. I'm sure you could get it engineered, but that costs money.
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Well there is more to it than just suspension, but I can't answer the "post registration" question. I'm sure you could get it engineered, but that costs money.
Not according to 3 people i know on Eoz that had it done on cruisers..
It's a complete suspension kit, then testing - For Lucy and his troopy - all of the testing was braking, and hand brake. But they had the data from someone else, so he didnt have to pay the huge $$$$
The only way to get it done is to hire a race track, professional driver and more (total cost $10k+.. if it fails, rebook and pay another $10k+) Then that data can be used by other people (as above)... but the data is only good for someone else only with the exact same make/mode/engine/gearbox/tyres/weight/younameit car...
Must be same engine (TD is different to TD IC), same suspension same gearbox etc. The big issue we had at the time was finding tyres that would be legal then.
You can see what needs to be done in the first link above on patrol forum..
I went into it with 4 different Vicroads engineers... None would touch it once car was registered..
Spoke with TJM/ARB/Lovells and then Ateco at the time, they were too busy doing a kit for the 200 series at the time, and weren't interested.
Make the process easy and cheap and everyone will do it. Its not hard.
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Then that data can be used by other people (as above)... but the data is only good for someone else only with the exact same make/mode/engine/gearbox/tyres/weight/younameit car...
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Make the process easy and cheap and everyone will do it. Its not hard.
Then there's your answer. The only way they can guaratee that the vehicle will be "exactly" the same is when they are fresh off the showroom floor i.e. pre-registration.
What I meant by my "more than suspension work" is that every vehicle is different - some may need more, some don't.
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Then there's your answer. The only way they can guaratee that the vehicle will be "exactly" the same is when they are fresh off the showroom floor i.e. pre-registration.
Most people I know arent in the position to buy new $70,000-150,000 cars ever... let alone just cause their car is a few kg over the limit.
What I meant by my "more than suspension work" is that every vehicle is different - some may need more, some don't.
yea, you are right there.. Probably *easier* if there is such a thing for coil as I was describing than IFS/IRS etc...
But some manufacturers OFFER GVM upgrades when they are selling new cars... Interesting why they dont all do that.
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I've done a gvm upgrade on my patrol 3 yrs after I bought it however, the gvm upgrade was done in WA and after it was de-registered from its VIC home and when I chopped it into a 4 door ute.
The down side of this gvm upgrade is it's only valid in WA.
Oh, upgrade on patrols can only go to 3.5t on wagons and 3.7t on leaf sprung (rear) utes. Mine is 3.5t.
Loaded for a trip I'm close to 3.7t :-[
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These guys were advertising GVM upgrades at the Melbourne Leisurefest http://www.statewide4x4.com.au/gvm-products.aspx
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Most people I know arent in the position to buy new $70,000-150,000 cars ever... let alone just cause their car is a few kg over the limit.
Like most things in life, many problems are only solved with money. This is no different unfortunately.
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These guys were advertising GVM upgrades at the Melbourne Leisurefest http://www.statewide4x4.com.au/gvm-products.aspx
I get my work done there and am happy with them :cup:
Ther have a Patrol GVM update that I would like. Just need the $$$$
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I get my work done there and am happy with them :cup:
Ther have a Patrol GVM update that I would like. Just need the $$$$
No mention of one for a 105 series landcruiser unfortunately :-[
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You know guys sometimes its worth looking at the problem from the other direction.
Carefully looking at all accesssories , inventing you own , or doing them more effectivily to keep weight down.
There is nothing I can think of to do to my Gu Patrol and comes in under GVM at around 2950kg fully loaded for the hardest long distance trips with every reasonable function catered for like 250lt of fuel , winch , lockers, better 12v power lighting and so on.
You don't really need things like dual batteries,70lt of water , bullbars dual spare wheel carriers and so on - but you do need improvements
for these functions in many cases and thinking outside the square you can often come up with lightweight alternatives.
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You know guys sometimes its worth looking at the problem from the other direction.
Carefully looking at all accesssories , inventing you own , or doing them more effectivily to keep weight down.
There is nothing I can think of to do to my Gu Patrol and comes in under GVM at around 2950kg fully loaded for the hardest long distance trips with every reasonable function catered for like 250lt of fuel , winch , lockers, better 12v power lighting and so on.
You don't really need things like dual batteries,70lt of water , bullbars dual spare wheel carriers and so on - but you do need improvements
for these functions in many cases and thinking outside the square you can often come up with lightweight alternatives.
CARP......... >:(
A bullbar has saved me several times.......to say I dont need one .........thems fightn words. I'd still be somewhere 300 odd km from anywhere with bleached bones. A bullbar if you do any sort of remote travel is a necessity.
Likewise water. Having only recently (last week) returned from a week in the pilbara, I was drinking 3-4 liters a day. Add in a safety factor......you do the maths.
2 spares is a minimum out where I play (remote WA), as is duel batteries.
You're fine without all that if you are only sticking to bitumen or tootiling up and down the east coast...........
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You're fine without all that if you are only sticking to bitumen or tootiling up and down the east coast...........
Not even safe then......one dark night, we hit a stray cow on the Hume Freeway, 50km north of Melbourne.
The bull bar took the brunt. Nobody hurt, and we were able to drive home.
It can happen anywhere....
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Sorry guys but when you start going to serious places like when you won't see another car for days then keeping the car from breaking becomes more important.
Less weight , particularly keeping it under GVM is not only safter but likely to lead to less breakdowns better handling, able to stop quicker with better braking and a whole host of other issues, to to mention lack of insurance hassles and simply less fuel used.
Its not about doing nothing its about making better choices, every aspect from front end protection thru lights etc can usually be done better without incurring excessive weight or cost , for example carrying a second spare is an extra 40-60kg, instead of that you can invest 15kg into good comprehensive tyre tools and repair stuff so that you can repair a dozen tyres and not be stuffed when a
second spare goes down - and your 40kg in front.
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CARP......... >:(
A bullbar has saved me several times.......to say I dont need one .........thems fightn words. I'd still be somewhere 300 odd km from anywhere with bleached bones. A bullbar if you do any sort of remote travel is a necessity.
Likewise water. Having only recently (last week) returned from a week in the pilbara, I was drinking 3-4 liters a day. Add in a safety factor......you do the maths.
2 spares is a minimum out where I play (remote WA), as is duel batteries.
You're fine without all that if you are only sticking to bitumen or tootiling up and down the east coast...........
Its ok, some people are that fixated on "light weight" they remove the plastic cover from cordless drills..... I Shit you not.
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Its ok, some people are that fixated on "light weight" they remove the plastic cover from cordless drills..... I **** you not.
WTF is wrong with people.
Swannie
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WTF is wrong with people.
I take it you're a first time Robin reader ;D
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thru lights etc can usually be done better without incurring excessive weight or cost , for example carrying a second spare is an extra 40-60kg, instead of that you can invest 15kg into good comprehensive tyre tools and repair stuff so that you can repair a dozen tyres and not be stuffed when a
second spare goes down - and your 40kg in front.
So what do you do when the spare is shredded and ****ed or your radiator is leaking because of no bull bar?
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So what do you do when the spare is shredded........
Grab one from the back of your mates car??... ;D ;D
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To give you an insight. I did $15k damage to the front of the patrol after belting a roo. Bullbar.....stuffed, vehicle drivable. 300km later was when I saw the next person and the road I was on, is very very lightly travelled.
You save your 40kg, I'd rather cart my 2 spares AND repair kit/tools, and a bit more than I need than die in the desert.
A shop ain't around the corner, nor is emergency assistance. It can be up to 6 hrs away. Think about it.........
A little tip for ya Robin, take an epirb and a sat phone if you travel into the desert as ill prepared as you describe beacuse you'll be calling for help............... ???
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So what do you do when the spare is shredded and ****ed or your radiator is leaking because of no bull bar?
Call roadside assist. Then grab a beer from the 500 litre car fridge you fitted thanks to the weight saving techniques you used 8) 8) 8)
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Call roadside assist. Then grab a beer from the 500 litre car fridge you fitted thanks to the weight saving techniques you used 8) 8) 8)
He's probably carting a home brew keg with him, save on all that excess glass weight. Lol
Sent from my GT-P5210 using Tapatalk 2
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I have sent some emails to a popular Australian 4WD magazine that usually has an article on a 4WD vehicle that has undergone the 'usual' add ons. To my calculations the majority of these vehicles easily exceed the GVM. I have not received any responses - probably because of advertising by the accessory companies. As an example of one email:
To the Editor,
I understand the busy schedule and the demands you are obviously under in getting the 'next' great XXXXX magazine out. However, I did not get any response to my previous email, particularly if my assessment was incorrect.
Maybe you have concerns with my comments and any potential impact regarding advertisers and/or sponsors. ARB certainly do as they (Branch Manager in XXXX) refuse to supply any weight data for my query and provide a lame excuse of "As there are quite a few variables when installing accessories & modifying motor vehicles it is extremely difficult to quote weights. Bull bars, kits, side rails & rear bars etc. get improved, modified, superseded quite regularly." For an internationally recognised engineering company that must have their products ADR compliant I find it totally implausible that they do not know the weights of their major components.
However, I still believe there is a positive and educational technical article that could be written in XXXXX to outline the definitions and impacts on kerb weight, Gross Vehicle Mass and Gross Combination Mass through the addition of various modifications and after market accessories. Also, your readers could also be informed of the registration, insurance, structural and legal impacts of driving vehicles above specification weights. And finally, what needs to be undertaken in getting an engineering certification to increase GVM to remain legal.
As another example, in the XXXX mag, there is an article that details a custom Toyota FJ Cruiser.
Looking on the Toyota website we see the weight specs for the FJ Cruiser as the following:
Kerb weight (kg, Toyota has confirmed with me that this does not include fuel) 2000
Gross Vehicle Mass (kg) 2510
Gross Combination Mass (kg) 4760
Gross Trailer weight braked (kg) 2250
Gross Trailer weight unbraked (kg) 750
Toyota also states that GVM is the total permissible combined weight of the vehicle, including occupants, fuel and cargo. Thus, for the FJ Cruiser payload would equal GVM minus Kerb Weight (2510-2000kg) which equates to 510kg.
Looking at the modifications done to the FJ in the article (the range of mods being fairly typical for a lot of 4WD owners) the following can be concluded:
ARB Deluxe winch bar 35kg nett (18kg of OEM gear is taken off the FJ before fitment)
Rock sliders 30kg
Rear steel bar 15kg nett
Warn XD9000 winch 40kg
Drifta Storage drawers 25kg
80 ltr Engel fridge 35kg
ARB Full recovery kit 10kg
Maxtrax (4kg each) 8kg
Shovel and hilift jack 15kg
Full length roof rack (Alloy 25kg, steel 45kg) 25kg
160 Ah auxiliary battery 25kg
2 ARB Awnings 20kg
The above list totals 283kg and some of the weights I have erred on the light side, eg roof rack.
Now add the weights of:
Above modifications 283kg
159 litres of ULP (0.74 kg/lt) 117kg
2 people @ 70kg each 140kg
We now have 540 kg, which is already 30kg above the payload for the FJ Cruiser, and we have yet to add water, food, camping gear, clothes, first aid kit, suspension, tools, wheel/tyre upgrades, the sum of other smaller mods like driving lights and wiring, compressors etc and we surpass the payload even more. Also if any towing is to be done - camper trailer, caravan etc - would need to add the towball down weight to the vehicle kerb weight too.
So, assuming approximately another 100kg for the extras (water alone is 1kg/litre so 50 litres is 50kg), we are at 640kg payload and a GVM of 2640kg, some 130kg over GVM. Add any towball down weight - say 100kg - we are now 230kg over the GVM.
If a fully laden 4WD tourer, that is over its approved GVM, is involved in an accident, regardless of whose fault it is, what is the legal outcome?
Again, I ask the question - am I off the mark here?
An educational technical article in XXXX can assist people in prioritising their choices for after market products and obtain, if required, appropriate engineering approval and any required structural modifications to have their vehicle ADR approved and compliant.
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"Again, I ask the question - am I off the mark here? "
Hardly ChookDuck , that sort of feedback to magazines and also to posts like is they way to go.
Many people genuinely hold different points of view and want real info and asking the harder questions is a step we can take - even a non-reply from the mag tells you something.
Some simply bolt on a heavy accessory genuinely not knowing that it can actually be harmful overall if it, for example, reduces your braking distance at the wrong time.
Keeping within GVM is just one thing we can do to make our cars better - seriously its just common sense.
Along this theme I found a local weighbridge in Dandenong vic that costs nothing to use and this really helps to keep a tab on things.
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What this really shows up is the fact that you can't buy a genuine 4WD for Oz conditions (Mmm Defender maybe). I'm of the opinion that if I was to spend 80k-100k on a vehicle, I'd want it to perform as advertised rather than having to throw another 10k or so at it!!!
That's why both my vehicles are 90's models.
Just my 2 bobs worth, mind ;D
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I called them today and the weekend :D
Surprisingly 3 times I called (with differnet suspension combinations) seemed everything I had was not suitable and would be "thrown away"... I was laughing by the end of the phone call!
They will replace it with Lovells suspension - no quality brand suspension is suitable - even if you fitted Bilstiens, or Koni 90's yesterday King or Dobinson springs...
They also fit the rear tower kits - ATOC ones are "no good" they need to fit something else *shock*, which will raise it to 3495kg.
The cost is $3150 he thinks.
Wish that dodgey dude a certain north sydney 4b store in NSW was using was still around.... sadly he lost his permit for NSW and Victoria.
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Just for completeness, here is the previous email to the one above I sent regarding GVM to the popular 4WD magazine.
To the Editor,
I have always found the articles on Customised vehicles of interest; however, I believe there is one area where more information on the customisation is required - the impact on Kerb and thus Gross Vehicle Mass weights.
As an example in the latest XXXXX magazine I have just received in the mail there is a detailed article on a Prado. While the list of after market items is very impressive, and each item taken in isolation is totally appropriate for 4WD use, I wonder what is the new kerb weight of the Prado, and how close to GVM, after modification.
According to your magazine, the GXL manual DT4 Prado has a payload of 660 kgs. Toyota's web page has the difference between Kerb weight (2320kg) and GVM (2990kg) as 670kgs.
Looking at some of the heavy additional items added to the Prado in question - dingo doza roof top tent (50kg), two 40 lt Engel fridges at 24kg each (48kg), extra spare wheel in the MTZ and MT Lockring (39kg), warn 9000lb winch (40kg), Intimidator 80Ah battery (23kg), hi-lift jack (14kg), ARB Steel Roof Tent Rack (50kg) and twin drawer system (40kg) - this equates to an increase by some 304kg alone.
Now take all the other extra items that substitute OEM gear - five MTZ 285/70/17 tyres and MT Lockring wheels, ARB Deluxe steel winch bar, rear Kaymar twin wheel bar, brown davis undergaurds, heavy duty long travel suspension upgrades, safari snorkel, various LED light bars, side and rear awnings, water tank etc, there is probably a few 100 more kilograms to add. If any trailer is to be towed then the tow ball down weight would have to be factored in too.
Even without these mods, 150 litres of diesel weighs 135kg, the 65 lt water tank when full is an additional 65 kgs, two people at around 70kg each adds another 140kg. This alone adds another 340 kgs and we haven't even started to add clothing, food, camping gear etc.
So, the extra stuff at 304kg plus the diesel, water and people at 340 kg totals 644kg. We are nearly at the 670 kg payload and we have not even added in the unknown weight increase of items that replace OEM gear. While there may be some small differences in actual weights of equipment, I would assess that this vehicle is over its GVM, particularly when fueled up and ready to commence a long off road trip.
So, unless there has been some engineering assessments done and the vehicle has been checked and approved, one could say that it is illegal to drive, not alone insure as well. Also, I believe there is a roof loading limit whilst driving. Does the equipment mounted on the roof rack of this Prado come in under that weight limit?
To laud such vehicles in your magazine without checking weight and engineering impacts implicitly gives approval that overloading such vehicles is OK.
For future magazines, I would recommend that changes to Kerb/Tare and GVM be published in the articles, and if not legal then you should consider whether to publish such articles.
Happy to discuss further, particularly if I aim missing the point somewhere.
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What this really shows up is the fact that you can't buy a genuine 4WD for Oz conditions (Mmm Defender maybe). I'm of the opinion that if I was to spend 80k-100k on a vehicle, I'd want it to perform as advertised rather than having to throw another 10k or so at it!!!
That's why both my vehicles are 90's models.
Just my 2 bobs worth, mind ;D
And why I wouldn't consider buying a new vehicle - like you, Defender excepted - because newer vehicles are predominantly designed as made / gravel road tourers in the south east corner, not for remote extended touring.
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And why I wouldn't consider buying a new vehicle - like you, Defender excepted - because newer vehicles are predominantly designed as made / gravel road tourers in the south east corner, not for remote extended touring.
Or get a dual cab or cab chassis vehicle. At least their payloads are up around 750-1000 kgs.
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And another email.
Hi,
Just read the artilce in the Feb 2014 issue of Overlander titiled 'Custom Built'. An excellent article that provided me with a great overview of new vehicle modifications. I particularly liked the 'GVM Increases' part of the article; however, it would seem that in other areas of the magazine this information is disregarded, e.g. the article 'Cool as Ice' about a modified Landcruiser 200 series. As spectactular as the vehicle in the article is, was it weighed in touring configuration to ensure it is below its GVM of 3350kg (assuming it's a GXL model).
Your statement in the 'Custom Built' article regarding GVM dropping payload to around 500-600 kg is accurate, with the GXL turbo diesel Landcruiser 200 having 620kgs payload according to the current Toyota website. Looking at some of the mods incorporated in the 'Cool as Ice' article including:
ARB premium bar and side bars would be easily over 60 kg
ARB steel roof rack 45 kg
ARB 78ltr fridge 27 kg
An extra spare tyre in the Federal 35" and Dick Cepik wheel 41 kg
ORS three drawer and fridge slide 63 kg
Warn 9500 wicnh with steel wire 39 kg
Optima D27M battery in an Arkpak 26 kg
65 lt Alloy water tank 10 kg
Long ranger 170 lt fuel tank 60 kg
Kaymar rear bar dual wheel carrier approx 40 kg
These known mods total 411 kgs.
Unknown additions would also include all the equipment being carried on the roof rack as per the pictures in the article: maxtrax, large yellow ice esky, recovery gear etc. Also the nett weight from other mods/additions such as the larger wheel/tyre combination, increased suspension componentry, underneath protection plates, spot lights, led light bar, snorkel, kaymar rear light work lights, etc.
Add 263 litres of diesel (@ 0.8kg/ltr) 210 kg, 65 ltr of water 65 kg and you have another 275 kgs. So we are now up to 686 kgs of known weight increase and 66 kg above GVM, and we still have to add in the unknown nett weights of the above, plus 2 adults and children, plus camping gear, food, clothes and other touring 'essentials'. Plus any towball weight for caravan/camper or trailer.
Your 'Custom Built' article explains how to go about getting GVM increased legally. Did you check that this had been done for the Landcruiser 200 in the 'Cool as Ice' article? If not it should have been.
I realise that you will probably not answer this email, as per the previous two I have sent, as it will most likely impede on advertising for your magazine.
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And another email.
why do you think they give a Shit?? it isn't their car.. and putting said Shitbox in the magazine has worked, you bought it...
Result 1 - 0 to the magazine.
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AND are you absolutely certain that the 200 doesn't have a GVM upgrade?.........HOW? You personally know the owner???
Anywho, I might go do a "look at me" in my 4wd, you'd have a coronary.............the thing weighs well over 3.5T :angel: :angel: ;D ;D
Oh, yes I DO have a GVM upgrade........ :-*
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Why would you bother writing to a magazine?? They are in the majority just journalists with 9/10th of bugger all knowledge about what they write about just opinion and hearsay! Save your money on magazine subscriptions and weigh the thing and talk to an engineer.
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why do you think they give a ****?? it isn't their car.. and putting said ****box in the magazine has worked, you bought it...
Result 1 - 0 to the magazine.
Lost, not really. The subscription was a birthday present so no cost to me. Just won't renew that's all. Score 1-0 to me.
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Why would you bother writing to a magazine?? They are in the majority just journalists with 9/10th of bugger all knowledge about what they write about just opinion and hearsay! Save your money on magazine subscriptions and weigh the thing and talk to an engineer.
As above, I'm not paying for the subscription - it was a gift.
Why not write to the mag, we cannot all just sit on our backsides. If no one writes in and agrees/disagrees/comments then they automatically take the high ground.
Sounds like a lot of people out there are probably overloaded. Hope they don't have an accident, especially with me.
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Sounds like a lot of people out there are probably overloaded. Hope they don't have an accident, especially with me.
What a stupid comment, if it worries you that much, stay home then or paint a target on ya truck so we know which one to aim for......................... ;D
My vehicle is well over the factory GVM, yes, I have had a GVM upgrade, yes I do a sustantial amout of remote travel and require all the equipment (safety or otherwise) that I carry however, to keep bleating on here where the majority of people keep within the rules/are aware of their vehicle's GVM or stating that you have had a wee whinge to a mag that you know quite well will not respond in kind, is totally superfluous and self gratifying................................ ::)
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What a stupid comment, if it worries you that much, stay home then or paint a target on ya truck so we know which one to aim for......................... ;D
My vehicle is well over the factory GVM, yes, I have had a GVM upgrade, yes I do a sustantial amout of remote travel and require all the equipment (safety or otherwise) that I carry however, to keep bleating on here where the majority of people keep within the rules/are aware of their vehicle's GVM or stating that you have had a wee whinge to a mag that you know quite well will not respond in kind, is totally superfluous and self gratifying................................ ::)
Good stuff, you acknowledge you are over GVM. You know the risks, well done, here's an award :cup:
The issue is that the majority of people have NFI they are over GVM which is compounded by irresponsible journalism! All they are interested in is you loading up your truck with all the Shyte you think you need or want advertised in their articles.
:cheers:
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The issue is that the majority of people have NFI they are over GVM which is compounded by irresponsible journalism! All they are interested in is you loading up your truck with all the Shyte you think you need or want advertised in their articles.
The issue is there is no way around it for most people to become legal....
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What a stupid comment, if it worries you that much, stay home then or paint a target on ya truck so we know which one to aim for......................... ;D
My vehicle is well over the factory GVM, yes, I have had a GVM upgrade, yes I do a sustantial amout of remote travel and require all the equipment (safety or otherwise) that I carry however, to keep bleating on here where the majority of people keep within the rules/are aware of their vehicle's GVM or stating that you have had a wee whinge to a mag that you know quite well will not respond in kind, is totally superfluous and self gratifying................................ ::)
The comment about not 'hitting me' is more about me not wanting to be hit by an overloaded vehicle for everybody's sake. The comment was not meant to be taken as a threat as your response seems to indicate.
To see you have done the right thing in getting a legal GVM upgrade is great. But, I still believe that many people, blissfully through ignorance and not through just doing an incorrect thing, need to be informed as the potential consequences - financial, personal, etc. could be a rude awakening for all invovled. Same goes for overloading CTs. If you have not witnessed a severe structural failure before, it is a sight to behold.
Again, great you have done the right thing.
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If you have a GVM upgrade, look into it as it is VERY hard to do in QLD. A lot of guys were handing out mod plates for this for years and it all went through QLD Tpt without being noticed.
The modification codes used were for heavy vehicles, which does not cover light vehicles uder 4500kg. You can, in Qld, apply for an exemption from this rule, by submitting your life history to Qld Tpt. Good luck with that. ;D
A copy from Qld C.O.P.
• A number of the codes in Table 2 make reference to the S section for the alteration of GVM, GCM or ATM. The S section of VSB6 is not to be used on any light vehicle without the express written permission of Transport and Main Roads.
Only the codes listed in Table 2 are acceptable to certify modifications on light vehicles, provided the modification/s meets all requirements of the code (with variations listed in this document) and are performed to good engineering practice. Any heavy vehicle codes not listed above are not permitted to be used for certifying modification to light vehicles without the express written permission of Transport and Main Roads.
To seek such approval, a completed 'Motor Vehicle Modification Application' (Form F1854) must be submitted to TMR for consideration.
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Sorry guys but when you start going to serious places like when you won't see another car for days then keeping the car from breaking becomes more important.
Less weight , particularly keeping it under GVM is not only safter but likely to lead to less breakdowns better handling, able to stop quicker with better braking and a whole host of other issues, to to mention lack of insurance hassles and simply less fuel used.
Its not about doing nothing its about making better choices, every aspect from front end protection thru lights etc can usually be done better without incurring excessive weight or cost , for example carrying a second spare is an extra 40-60kg, instead of that you can invest 15kg into good comprehensive tyre tools and repair stuff so that you can repair a dozen tyres and not be stuffed when a
second spare goes down - and your 40kg in front.
Hi Robin
Only just saw your post. You will never have any luck with this type of argument on vehicle related forums as it is a little too abstract and the culture is too far entrenched.
The bullbar one is a perfect example. It makes you less safe in a modern 4wd yet the fallacy continues that 'it saved them'.
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.
The bullbar one is a perfect example. It makes you less safe in a modern 4wd yet the fallacy continues that 'it saved them'.
Sigh............... ::)
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Sigh............... ::)
Where abouts do you go in the Pilbra mate
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Hi Robin
Only just saw your post. You will never have any luck with this type of argument on vehicle related forums as it is a little too abstract and the culture is too far entrenched.
The bullbar one is a perfect example. It makes you less safe in a modern 4wd yet the fallacy continues that 'it saved them'.
I am an Australian 4x4 driver I have the right to fit a Bullbar.........Sounds a bit like I am an American and we have the right to carry guns. Tongue in cheek >:D
Dave
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Where abouts do you go in the Pilbra mate
Not just the Pilbra..... 8)
I'm regurlary in the Great Vic Desert, but this year will be spending a bit of time in the Gibson, Great Sandy and the little Sandy........
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Sigh............... ::)
Explain.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
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Explain.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk (http://tapatalk.com/m?id=1)
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The bullbar one is a perfect example. It makes you less safe in a modern 4wd yet the fallacy continues that 'it saved them'.
I did $15k worth of damage after hitting a roo...............WITH a bull bar! My vehicle was drivable, and got me safely home. Irrespective of how late a model vehicle you drive, a bullbar WILL save your skin in an animal strike.
Oh, that's right, all livestock including wildlife live behind fences.............. ::)
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$15k worth of damage with a bull bar fitted?
How freakin fast were you travelling?
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Patrol GVM
Great
Vehicle
Mate
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$15k worth of damage with a bull bar fitted?
How freakin fast were you travelling?
Cruise was set at 97km/h. Hit a Big Red, bent the ARB bar, grill, headlight, bonnet, guard (and inner), HID driving lights, winch (yep, the roo pushed the bash plate up and broke the housing on the winch) and cracked the alloy rim (when I went over the carcass).
Yep, scary hit and if no bullbar, I would have been waiting a few days for the next vehicle........
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Cruise was set at 97km/h. Hit a Big Red, bent the ARB bar, grill, headlight, bonnet, guard (and inner), HID driving lights, winch (yep, the roo pushed the bash plate up and broke the housing on the winch) and cracked the alloy rim (when I went over the carcass).
Yep, scary hit and if no bullbar, I would have been waiting a few days for the next vehicle........
Horses for courses etc, and we all are free to make our own choices however, IMO cruise can be 'problematic' where sight lines are insufficient to allow time to respond to changed conditions...
For example:
* un-fenced roads;
* road-side growth close to road, which can hide wildlife / feral animals;
* gravel etc roads, where wash-outs can easily destroy vehicles, as per an earlier post in this thread.
When using the right foot decelleration is at least momentarily quicker.
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.........
The bullbar one is a perfect example. It makes you less safe in a modern 4wd yet the fallacy continues that 'it saved them'.
One very dark night on the Hume Freeway at Wandong, I hit a stray cow at 110km/h. Had a '93 Paj with bullbar.
All surprisingly uneventful inside the car, and we drove home.
Six weeks earlier we had an XF wagon. The result would have been a bit different.
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Horses for courses etc, and we all are free to make our own choices however, IMO cruise can be 'problematic' where sight lines are insufficient to allow time to respond to changed conditions...
For example:
* un-fenced roads;
* road-side growth close to road, which can hide wildlife / feral animals;
* gravel etc roads, where wash-outs can easily destroy vehicles, as per an earlier post in this thread.
When using the right foot decelleration is at least momentarily quicker.
And lift off oversteer........... ::)
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And lift off oversteer........... ::)
How does moving the right foot from accelerator to brake cause oversteer?
Is this a Patrol 'thing'?
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I did $15k worth of damage after hitting a roo...............WITH a bull bar! My vehicle was drivable, and got me safely home. Irrespective of how late a model vehicle you drive, a bullbar WILL save your skin in an animal strike.
Oh, that's right, all livestock including wildlife live behind fences.............. ::)
Hi Dr Evil
Sadly you are incorrect when it comes to the vast majority of new vehicles. A bullbar spreads the impact load across a wider area of your vehicle reducing the crumple zones efficiency. In an offset collision, the most common 'head on' style impact, the bullbar robs the vehicle of the ability to crumple as designed. Now here is the kicker. Its in the big hits, where the chance of living or dying is in the balance, that the ability of your crumple zones to operate as designed may just save you and the other occupants. The crumpling of the bumpers, mudguards, inner fenders, bonnet, radiator, fan, fan shroud etc etc all slow down the actual stop that kills you.
The bullbar prevents this and spreads the load out across the whole front including the opposite chassis rails and you stop quicker. Not what you want. Survivability is huge nowadays with crumple zones and airbags and its often the cars that look terribly damaged where the driver has survived due to the crumple zones doing their job.
This is not to say, and I dont suggest it for one minute, that no one should fit a bullbar, it just needs to be thought through. If in your case a disabled vehicle may be life threatening (thats how I read what you have said) then it makes sense. If you live in an area where you travel at night and the chances of hitting wildlife is high then again it makes sense.
However, if you live urban and/or having a disabled vehicle is not a life threatening issue, then the decision does not make as much sense. A good example is I lived near South West Rocks for 5 years and travelled into Kempsey. In that time I hit a wallaby that did a bit of damage. Had I had a bullbar no damage would have occurred. But had I been in a vehicle accident on the highway then I would have been in a safer position.
Hope that makes sense. Not talking about banning bullbars or such sillyness. Just that its worth thinking about, particularly if you have your family in with you.
Cheers
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Hi Dr Evil
Sadly you are incorrect when it comes to the vast majority of new vehicles. A bullbar spreads the impact load across a wider area of your vehicle reducing the crumple zones efficiency. In an offset collision, the most common 'head on' style impact, the bullbar robs the vehicle of the ability to crumple as designed. Now here is the kicker. Its in the big hits, where the chance of living or dying is in the balance, that the ability of your crumple zones to operate as designed may just save you and the other occupants. The crumpling of the bumpers, mudguards, inner fenders, bonnet, radiator, fan, fan shroud etc etc all slow down the actual stop that kills you.
The bullbar prevents this and spreads the load out across the whole front including the opposite chassis rails and you stop quicker. Not what you want. Survivability is huge nowadays with crumple zones and airbags and its often the cars that look terribly damaged where the driver has survived due to the crumple zones doing their job.
This is not to say, and I dont suggest it for one minute, that no one should fit a bullbar, it just needs to be thought through. If in your case a disabled vehicle may be life threatening (thats how I read what you have said) then it makes sense. If you live in an area where you travel at night and the chances of hitting wildlife is high then again it makes sense.
However, if you live urban and/or having a disabled vehicle is not a life threatening issue, then the decision does not make as much sense. A good example is I lived near South West Rocks for 5 years and travelled into Kempsey. In that time I hit a wallaby that did a bit of damage. Had I had a bullbar no damage would have occurred. But had I been in a vehicle accident on the highway then I would have been in a safer position.
Hope that makes sense. Not talking about banning bullbars or such sillyness. Just that its worth thinking about, particularly if you have your family in with you.
Cheers
100% on the money in my opinion.
Dave
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gee thanks dave!
Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
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Bugger....just thru my pootrol over the weight bridge at our local dump, and she is over...3.2T >:( >:(, prob still have 200/300kg ?? of gear that I would throw in including family before heading off, TBH I had my suspicions given how its set up, and how we tour.
Im prob no different to others I guess, but the thing is I now know...time to try and do something about it.
Anyone point me in the right direction, im NSW, the veh has, heavy duty sus (lifted 2 inches), rear towers strengthened, air bags, castor done,
If you guys know of anyone let me know.
Regards Swanny :cheers:
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Bugger....just thru my pootrol over the weight bridge at our local dump, and she is over...3.2T >:( >:(, prob still have 200/300kg ?? of gear that I would throw in including family before heading off, TBH I had my suspicions given how its set up, and how we tour.
Im prob no different to others I guess, but the thing is I now know...time to try and do something about it.
Anyone point me in the right direction, im NSW, the veh has, heavy duty sus (lifted 2 inches), rear towers strengthened, air bags, castor done,
If you guys know of anyone let me know.
Regards Swanny :cheers:
Have a chat to Ultimate Suspension.
I'm looking for a GVM upgrade on my BT-50, they can do one that is legal in NSW, but still have to add more Ultimate Suspension parts to my new Ultimate Suspension + get an Engineers report.
Rumor is that the other states will respect the NSW approved mod - but stand to be corrected (it'll take a while as the missus & daughter are still telling me everything I do wrong).
In my case I'm looking at itso that if I go over GVM then it's covered.
Had a mate who's dealer raised a stink about GVM with his truck, not worth the grief.
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Bugger....just thru my pootrol over the weight bridge at our local dump, and she is over...3.2T >:( >:(, prob still have 200/300kg ?? of gear that I would throw in including family before heading off, TBH I had my suspicions given how its set up, and how we tour.
Im prob no different to others I guess, but the thing is I now know...time to try and do something about it.
Anyone point me in the right direction, im NSW, the veh has, heavy duty sus (lifted 2 inches), rear towers strengthened, air bags, castor done,
If you guys know of anyone let me know.
Regards Swanny :cheers:
read the previous page.. bout $3000-3500
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You must have to use there suspension, and other parts ??, I would have thought if you have already fitted the necessary bits and pieces it would be a simplified process.
Any thoughts.
Thanks all same fellas.
Swanny
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You must have to use there suspension, and other parts ??, I would have thought if you have already fitted the necessary bits and pieces it would be a simplified process.
correct. Your parts unless they are the ones as part of this "kit" are no good. Even if they are $20,000 Bilsteins.