MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: UTE 701 on March 27, 2012, 08:02:51 PM
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My wife plays Netball with another lady who chatted that her husband is in the Camper Trailer manufacturing business .
Straight away my wife starts on about me always being on My Swag , and asks if she knows about it .
Turns out her husband is always looking on here but never starts talk because of the chance of bad publicity .
The conversation continued and was spot on , in that people would not walk up to the makers at a Show and bag their product ( too gutless ) , but they suddenly take on a brave front when writing about it on a Forum . He said it's safer not to get involved .
I thought this was a real shame as it would be good to have some Manufacturer input and discussion .
But the discussion then went on to talk about defamation and the cases where large sums have been paid out where people have thought it was a safe thing to run down a product name on a Forum .
I guess the conversation was accurate , as mention was made of a guy who rubbishes a product permanently in his signature on My Swag .....
So , I thought about whether I would get any flack back from this fellow as he could be reading this now , but I thought for the sake of the site , I would bring this into the open .
Maybe there are more Manufacturers that think the same way ...
Anyway , I just thought I would pass this on .
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But the discussion then went on to talk about defamation and the cases where large sums have been paid out where people have thought it was a safe thing to run down a product name on a Forum .
I call bullsh!t on this point, did he provide details? Remember the Whirlpool defamation case ended up worse for the company that threatened legal action than Whirlpool. That said Simon did have some sleepless nights over it.
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That was my first thought too ...
As usual a few minutes of google pops up things like this ...
http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/cyber-poisonpenner-hunted-down-and-sued-20100224-p3n7.html (http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/cyber-poisonpenner-hunted-down-and-sued-20100224-p3n7.html)
and
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/online-forum-trolls-cost-me-millions-filmmaker-20090715-dl4t.html (http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/online-forum-trolls-cost-me-millions-filmmaker-20090715-dl4t.html)
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The first link is interesting, I wasn't aware of that one. Doesn't state the deails however I guess if you defame someone then you will face the law. If in the case you mention, the person with the sig, that is valid, no defamation just a statement of fact.
Given social media prevalence these days companies need to have a very specific online strategy. There is a fine line between marketing and SPAM.
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Interesting perhaps because here (on a forum) ... you can be anyone you want. Personally ... I'm me, myself, just I. What I type is what you get in the real world ... with marginally less swearing ... and zero noise. Lucky you people! ;D
If I feel the need to "bag a product or manufacturer" it's because I'm unhappy with their service, their product or how they treated me when I complained to them, and whether they assisted me to fix the issue that their product or service has caused, or explained to me why/how they can or can not help. You don't pass that test, then I'm gonna bag you firstly to yourself, then everywhere, not just here on some forum.
EG: I've had a little trouble with two retailers recently. Nothing overly earthshattering, just annoying at the time. Both companies have surpassed my expectations, once I got to speak with "the right person" to explain my dissatisfaction ... but it's usually not the first or second person who might help me, which is disappointing, but something I expected.
I think it takes a lot of non-genuine staff (who work for the money) to get to the one very genuine person (who loves what they do and love that they also get paid to do it) who says "Oh I'm so sorry, what can I do to help OR here's what I can do to help". You just have to get passed the less helpful people first, and this is where most customers lose faith in the company ... especially after the product has failed.
However, as customers, I think our attitude also has something to do with how we get treated after the product fails. If we go in snorting steam, cussing, and red faced with our frustration (yes it can be frustrating) without finding the right person to talk to ... we often find no satisfaction ... and many are too willing to throw their hands in the air and then run down a company ... before really giving them a chance to correct the issue. Remember that those people behind the counter or on the phone are people as well, with biases and feelings just like us, the unhappy customer. Rather than yelling "I have this problem with your &*#@&%^& what are you going to do?" ... you could try a calm "I've got a problem, who can I talk to about it?" ... you'll always get better results.
In saying that, there are some companies, staff, people, who just couldn't give a rats festered behind and deserve the bashing they get, be it on forums or otherwise. I can name two (well known often advertised) companies who get that ranking from me, but I'd rather save my breath and just simply not deal with or think about them ever again ... and I've told them so. ;D
Kit_e
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I think that's a week excuse personally.
Look how much business John from trackabout got from MySwag by being honest and straight forward.
I have not seen any other camper trailer manufacturer join up and join in. There is a lot business to be had from members on this site.
Regarding defamation where does it stop. I work in real estate and there are websites that you can complain and critisise agents for poor service etc. If I was an agent and my name was on there can I sue the website and that person for speaking their mind and stating a fact.
I could critisise a lot of businesses I have dealt with , stores I have visited and carriers who lost my gear but I could not be bothered as we tell 10 people about bad service and very few about good service.
Mark
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I think it would be to a manufacturers benefit to contribute.
We get to know them on a more 'personal' level and whenever an issue does arise then they are able to contribute and give their side of the story - there are always two sides.
A perfect example is what happened on another forum I am a member of. A caravan busted a suspension mount somewhere remote, the story got told by a third party that told the story like Chinese whispers, then the maker of the caravanner was able to get on, explain what actually happened, why it occurred, and what was done to resolve the problem - and it was all out in the public. Had he not done that the readers would get left with a doubt regarding this manufacturer based on what was told. As it is, the perception is now a complete 180.
There are other camper trailer manufacturers that have joined up and are probably regular readers but just not big post contributors (and there are probably heaps of general members like this too).
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If in the case you mention, the person with the sig, that is valid, no defamation just a statement of fact.
And you know this ... How ?
Maybe it was before my time here , so I am keen to see a link to the post that explained this ....
We get to know them on a more 'personal' level and whenever an issue does arise then they are able to contribute and give their side of the story - there are always two sides.
I tend to disagree , you can't even make a comment on here about electrical issues without an argument starting .... so imagine the fight between a Manufacturer trying to make his point and a customer , like a dog with a bone just at him and at him , once again hiding behind an internet curtain ....
Actually there are 3 sides to a story ... My side , your side , and the truth ! :laugh:
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I have not seen any other camper trailer manufacturer join up and join in.
I can think of three that have recently. GeeTee still seems to be having a go, good on him.
The other two started regular posting in the Showroom section, but seem to have been scared off. Perhaps a few comments from them about how they felt they were welcomed would be worthwhile.
Any input from businesses should be welcomed as long as its not invasive.
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I can think of three that have recently. GeeTee still seems to be having a go, good on him.
The other two started regular posting in the Showroom section, but seem to have been scared off. Perhaps a few comments from them about how they felt they were welcomed would be worthwhile.
Any input from businesses should be welcomed as long as its not invasive.
The hardest thing for them is to not promote their opinions as this could and will be used against them.
Mark
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Honestly, I don't see the issue. If you stand by your product and explain thing with thought and logic then there wouldn't be an issue. It would be interesting to know how many sales JT got from this site. I know 3 for a fact because I brokered these for mates. I think and still do think that JT was/is an exceptional contributor to the forum......To me, it's a cop out on there behalf as they may get tricky questions they cannot or do not wish to answer to an informed crowd (ie MySwag).
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As a retailer you would really need to consider the cost / risk balance of being involved. I deal with customers at work and so many are just straight out lying bastards when they don't get their own way.
It's hard to control that on a forum.
Cheers.
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I have to say that everything I would say on here about a camper trailer I would ask of a manufacturer to their face. I'm a cheeky bastard and I ask it sometimes just to see if thy have thought of the answer and prepared for it before my question. Some surprise me, a lot unfortunately don't. As Teabag said, they probably are too worried to stand by their product. Logic does win out at the end of the day, and people realise who the Shit stirrers are by the posts they make, how a manufacturer handles that is important also.
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Isn't that the truth. This, the customer is always right is BS. Very few have much integrity now days and many are looking at what they can get for nothin.......
As a retailer you would really need to consider the cost / risk balance of being involved. I deal with customers at work and so many are just straight out lying bastards when they don't get their own way.
It's hard to control that on a forum.
Cheers.
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I know all about what people say on "forums". My business copped asever flogging on Facebook, for nearly 3 months, until it was realised by the original party that she had actually put the wrong business name on the Facebook comment. I had to change my operating name, get all my stationery changed, and have my Business Registration, GST Registration and all other Business name documents changed, simply because someone had "mistakenly typed the wrong name".
I was going to take legal action, but the cost would have been far too restrictive.
Tjupurula
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If anyone wants some fairly simple reading on defamation laws it can be found in the following link
http://www.artslaw.com.au/info-sheets/info-sheet/defamation-law-for-material-published-after-january-2006/ (http://www.artslaw.com.au/info-sheets/info-sheet/defamation-law-for-material-published-after-january-2006/)
Thought it might help clear up some things if anyone was wondering what the line was between a negative review and defamation.
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I thought this was intersting http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/astroturfing-corporate-trolls-are-the-new-spam-20120323-1vo9s.html (http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/astroturfing-corporate-trolls-are-the-new-spam-20120323-1vo9s.html)
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I thought this was intersting http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/astroturfing-corporate-trolls-are-the-new-spam-20120323-1vo9s.html (http://www.theage.com.au/digital-life/computers/blogs/gadgets-on-the-go/astroturfing-corporate-trolls-are-the-new-spam-20120323-1vo9s.html)
Gets complicated very quickly doesn't it, I liked this comment below the article:
"Wow, a green industry troll, trolling on an article about industry trolls, using exactly the tatics described in the article about industry trolls.
My brain is about explode from the recursion."
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Only way for it to work is that every forum member needs to have all their true personal details on the forum. No more forum names, just your own.
People with agendas can very easily destroy a business via forums or social media. Create a few bogus accounts and start spreading lies, very soon people read the post, get all angry and start telling them to go and report them, or take their business elsewhere etc etc. then the manufacturer tries to explain etc and it gets nasty very quickly.
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Honestly, I don't see the issue. If you stand by your product and explain thing with thought and logic then there wouldn't be an issue. It would be interesting to know how many sales JT got from this site. I know 3 for a fact because I brokered these for mates. I think and still do think that JT was/is an exceptional contributor to the forum......To me, it's a cop out on there behalf as they may get tricky questions they cannot or do not wish to answer to an informed crowd (ie MySwag).
Spot on TB, well said mate :cheers:
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There are quite a few vendors and manufacturers who have memberships on here.
Personally I wish they would get more involved, it would most likely benefit them, but it does take time, patience and some skill to do so effectively.
JT has been mentioned, I'll add two more; Drivesafe (Traxide) and Mandrake (plus state based agents). They all contribute and I would bet that this has resulted in more business for them. Thanks guys. Vehicle Components also get involved, and were able to respond to a reported failure. I think they came out of it looking even better.
I recall an incident involving Xtrail Campers. A member bagged them out saying they were Chinese manufactured rubbish. Sam, owner of Xtrail was unsure how to deal with these untruths. I advised him that this was a perfect opportunity to get the facts out there. "Chinese"? Nope, Aussieade, come and walk through my factory. Good on you Sam.
Let me also reflect on the experience of ARB recently. They have gone to town on social media, but the response to their introduction here was terrible; they were accused of ripping off Aussie customers and generally treated shabbily IMO. To their credit, they have maintained their presence and activity and as the recent tour of the factory shows, they're a great company. Not everyone in business could take the crap they received here and be able to back up. Good on you ARB!
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To all manufacturers and vendors out there; we are your customer base, your free R&D workshop, your best reference and absolutely key to your business success.
Get involved, it will be worth your while. I am happy to offer advice and assistance for you to get involved, as I've had significant experience in this area, because your involvement also benefits Myswag members.
PM me any time if you're keen.
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This is a very interesting one... A few years ago I owned a Very well known forum dealing with migrating to Australia. It had over 40,000 members, posting an verge of a 1000 pots a day. I was always encouraging businesses to engage in the forum, some were great and added value to the forums whilst others used it to promote their services etc. the funny thing was that a number loved it when they were getting praise (and recommendations), and as soon as a uncomplimentary comment was posted, they would scream blue murder about how it was damaging their business blah blah. On more than one occasion I had letters from lawyers threatening all sorts.. Cutting a Long story short ultimately I tell hen they can either roll with the good and the bad or I can delete their account and censor their name, but they can't have it all ways. Usually they then understood what getting involved with social media was all about.
Interesting enough.. Defamation law in Australia is 10years behind the uk nd America. In oz, the publisher (my swag) and the poster can be sued for defamation, unlike the rest of the civilized world which gives the publisher time to remove after a legitimate complaint!
Still having both side of the industry is why makes. Good forum such as my swag!
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I can think of three that have recently. GeeTee still seems to be having a go, good on him.
Any input from businesses should be welcomed as long as its not invasive.
Hurro! yes I am enjoying my time here on Myswag, I am relatively new here but have been a regular on other forums for years. Forums are a great place to get 'concentrated' feedback, ideas, etc from enthusiasts for products and my jernil..jurnly.. journalism. I'm sure I'm following in some great footsteps, but I must say it's a bit tricky knowing what to say/contribute without appearing to be too "sales-ish" but I think I'm doing okay so far :)
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we all have 2 ears, 2 eyes, and one mouth
I look and listen twice as much as what I talk
(or should that be 4x as much??)
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Interesting enough.. Defamation law in Australia is 10years behind the uk nd America. In oz, the publisher (my swag) and the poster can be sued for defamation, unlike the rest of the civilized world which gives the publisher time to remove after a legitimate complaint!
Exactly, and people don't realise this. If the person who is being 'defamed' is nice about it their lawyer will send you a letter asking for the comments to be removed, but they don't have to do that - they can jump right in and give you an appearance date.
That said Simon did have some sleepless nights over it.
I did (and do) as another forum I moderate on was the subject of a defamation case. Eventually the case was dropped, but not before costing the forum owner a considerable amount of money and stress. Since that event all posts that are negative towards any particular company are deleted, regardless if they are based in fact or not.
Some might find it of benefit to listen to John Selby (law lecturer) about this issue, fast forward to the 39:09 mark to hear him talk about defamation - http://www.overclockers.com.au/files/ocau_podcast10.mp3 (http://www.overclockers.com.au/files/ocau_podcast10.mp3)
Also good to listen to the entire thing, very interesting about internet law and copyright.
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MySwag is a great data base that I assume many manufacturers monitor (I know I do). It would cost a fortune in market research to get the information that you can get for free from here, and for that I am grateful. For me the reason for not contributing is time. As it is, we get at least a dozen calls and emails a day from people about second hand campers, and while we are happy to answer questions, it's a real drain on available time in a small business. Being active on the forums would use up even more time that we need to make new campers and stay in business.
Also one of the things I like about the forums is that they reveal the opinions and experiences of people using the products. People feel free to comment without the hype and distortions of advertising and vested interests. I especially like members pics because they show how the camper looks set up in the wild, often very different to how they look in the showroom! Also the electrical section is a wealth of information on how the various products stack up in real life, information which is otherwise very hard to find.
So posters keep on posting, it's great stuff and a great site.
Scoot
Aussie Swag Campers
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Hi all
I pretty new to my swag and have made a few posts. All I can say is that this forum is consuming all my time and I LOVE IT!!!!!!!!
Donuts the Copper :police:
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Here is another twist.. to business and forum's. I owned a small business in the garden industry and use to read a few different forums as well as advertise across a range a web site's, but on one particular forum whenever someone (public) asked about how to do this or do that, another member would post up a link to a product from an online company and then the next 2 posts would say how great there service is/was.
Ever time I TRIED to post on the forum, I would receive a PM from a Mod saying I cannot post about my product's that I sell, I never place up price's or hide the fact I was the business owner, but post after post was removed and then while at a garden show in Melbourne and chatting to some other business owners I found out that, this forum I was having issue's with was a setup.
It was believed that 3 or 4 businesses had come together and started the forum and using employee's and friends and family and would answer every post/question with with a link to a product sold by one of the online businesses, then others (friends/families etc) would would jump on backing up the service or the product or both.
So we really don't know who is who on a forum or why it really exist's.....
Cheers
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My rules, generally, and usually, is that never post anything on a forum (or especially facebook) that you wouldn't say in real life to a real person.
I've broken that rule a couple of times and it's got me in the poo. So I learn and carry on.
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My rules, generally, and usually, is that never post anything on a forum (or especially facebook) that you wouldn't say in real life to a real person.
I've broken that rule a couple of times and it's got me in the poo. So I learn and carry on.
I deleted my Facebook account and have never looked back
In regards to being careful what I say on forums, phoo - eee to that
Post what you want!
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http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-in-the-gun-as-cyber-hate-victims-fight-back-20120401-1w6nf.html (http://www.theage.com.au/technology/technology-news/google-in-the-gun-as-cyber-hate-victims-fight-back-20120401-1w6nf.html)