MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Campfire on March 13, 2012, 09:28:38 PM
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Hi group,
About an hour ago I was driving on a dark road in bush area ( Newcastle), and found myself attending a Motor Vehicle accident, the driver had lost control of the car and flipped it upside down in a ditch, my wife and I ( both from healthcare backgrounds) applied first aid where possible to this poor young girl driving the car.
I can't stress enough the value and importance of good first aid training and first aid kit.
Having checked the driver there was tell tale signs of shock and conciousness issues. First aid was applied for 15-20 mins before police , fire and ambulance arrive.
Having a first aid kit with space blanket is great, but don't leave it at home, because accidents can happen anywhere or anytime, even when making trips 20-30 mins from home. So it's handy to have one in the vehicle at all times.
The girl in situation was trapped in a car upside down, the area was dark with no light and busted glass, leaking fuel everywhere.
Always check the area for your own danger before rushing in. While this accident happened not far from Civilization, accidents can happen anywhere including remote trips.
I was only out tonight visiting a family member for their birthday, I had no plans / intentions of dealing with a motor vehicle accident, but tonight less than 1.5 hours ago this did happen.
DRABC & shock management ( very important).
Stick to the training your taught in the first aid course ( no more), and let the ambo's do the rest.
Also once the police, fire or ambulance arrive, give them the information they need and then get out of their way, I was amazed at the number of gawkers who stop for no reason other than to sticky beak, while I was giving my Information to police before leaving the accident scene.
A couple of other cars turned up, they didn't have much, but it was great to see the 4x4 enthusiast
also pull out and offer his 1st aid kit ( obviously prepared for the bush).
Cheers
Campfire
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i'm a firie and the saying goes
"your safety first, bystanders next and casualty last"
might seem harsh but if bystanders get involved the incident will blow out of the water.
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Good on you for stopping and helping - there are people these days that unfortunately wouldn't.
A great peice of advice and no doubt that young girl will be forever grateful to you both! :cup:
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I can't stress enough the value and importance of good first aid training and first aid kit.
x100
our wake up call was many years ago hours (almost days) from anywhere and seeing a snake crossing the track between ourselves and the kids whilst walking out from some old soaks, snake was longer than than the 2 wheel vehicle track was wide,
then we both thought what if...........
first thing on the list when we got back was a decent kit and it now goes everywhere we travel, figure if I always have it maybee I will never have to use it
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Hi Campfire
I am involved with the Desert Rescue Service, and fortunately we have only had one serious incident in the last five years. What surprises me is the amount of people who do the Canning Stock Route, plan for everything mechanical, food, fuel and water, but do not carry a first aid kit. Many carry some bandages and dettol, and perhaps a sling, but not much else.
Having said that, in more recent times, people are starting to carry comprehensive first aid kits, which is to their benefit. We tell everyone the same thing, ring ahead and give your estimated date of arrival, and vehicle registration and full description of vehicle, that way people know someone is coming. The most important thing people are told is to stay with their vehicle, vehicles are easier to spot from the air, whereas people running and waving around the ground can be very hard to see.
What you have said about carrying that first aid kit where ever one goes is really valid.
Regards
Tjupurula
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People still laugh at me because I carry 2 or 3 orange and reflective , witches hats in the ute and / or trailer .
Yet you still hear stories of people who are on auto pilot and just run into cars parked on the side of the highway .
I've even seen people changing a tyre on the highway , with only inches to spare .
First thing , I'll be doing if I have to stop on the side of the road , is run back 100 m and put the witches hats in a line herding cars around mine .
It's in the book of accident procedure : Try to make sure the accident doesn't get worse .
At pinch , get someone to go back and wave a white rag to slow traffic down on a normal road .
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Tjupurula,
Your right on the need for good emergency preparation when doing remote trips,
Groups like St Johns First Aid etc actually run " Remote Area First Aid Courses" designed for those who work or venture into remote areas. St Johns First Aid or the Red Cross also have an excellent selection of ready made up kits for different applications (e.g. Going bush, marine etc).
At the very minimum you can't go past the nationally recognized 1 or 2 day Senior First Aid Course which is valid for 3 years.
Cheers
Campfire
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People still laugh at me because I carry 2 or 3 orange and reflective , witches hats in the ute and / or trailer .
Yet you still hear stories of people who are on auto pilot and just run into cars parked on the side of the highway .
I've even seen people changing a tyre on the highway , with only inches to spare .
First thing , I'll be doing if I have to stop on the side of the road , is run back 100 m and put the witches hats in a line herding cars around mine .
It's in the book of accident procedure : Try to make sure the accident doesn't get worse .
At pinch , get someone to go back and wave a white rag to slow traffic down on a normal road .
Further to this, most of the time I'm in high vis clothing, but There is at least 1 high vis tabard (vest) in my, my wife and my daughters car. Instead of traffic cones I carry some folding triangles, Small to carry but visible. Due to my job I've got a beacon with me at all times, a $20 strobe beacon travels in my wife car.
Sometimes visibility = safety
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Bless you and your wife for stopping ....what a horrible thing to come across and thank goodness she was alright.
And some good advice there ..... you know we have a full time FAK in the cruiser at all times and we have a "bloody pharmacy" when we are camping..... but you know what i don't have anything with me in my little car that i burn about town in with the kids ..... given me some food for thought tonight ... maybe i should invest in getting organised in this department
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..... you know we have a full time FAK in the cruiser at all times and we have a "bloody pharmacy" when we are camping..... but you know what i don't have anything with me in my little car that i burn about town in with the kids ..... given me some food for thought tonight ... maybe i should invest in getting organised in this department
Just from tonights experience alone, can't go wrong with a couple of torches, pen and paper, leather work gloves,
I found myself climbing into the car with not much light, broken glass and twisted metal, leather
safety gloves for moving metal debris and extra torches would have been handy tonight ( self lesson noted).
Girl was trapped and the upside down car with crushed roof needed heaps of light to see if she was bleeding elsewhere plus glasgocoma scale checks and basic vital observations. Notes needed for any record of dull / sharp pain, intensity , proprioception, any comments which could be useful to police investigation. Phone numbers of family members to contact ( phoned her dad). Any potential allergies or medical conditions which can also be given to ambulance crews upon arrival.
Get a standby person to document everything while you focus on first aid.
I had one guy not sure of the gear in his own first aid so it would not hurt to be familiar with what you have, instead of just buying one and throwing it under the seat of the 4x4 and forgetting about it until needed.
These are just lessons I've picked up from tonight
Campfire
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Tjupurula,
Your right on the need for good emergency preparation when doing remote trips,
Groups like St Johns First Aid etc actually run " Remote Area First Aid Courses" designed for those who work or venture into remote areas. St Johns First Aid or the Red Cross also have an excellent selection of ready made up kits for different applications (e.g. Going bush, marine etc).
At the very minimum you can't go past the nationally recognized 1 or 2 day Senior First Aid Course which is valid for 3 years.
Cheers
Campfire
Well said Campfire. What I tell a lot of people who contact the community, or get in touch with me by email, is to get in touch with St John, or the Police, and findout if their preparations are sufficient. The Police in various towns, such as Halls Creek or Wiluna for the Canning Stock Route, will happily check your equipment and let you know if there is anything that they consider you should have.
A little bit of preparation is much better than a lifetime of grief, or anguish, for the loved ones. I am certain that the Police involved with other tourist and travelling places would always be happy to respond to a request for advice, rather than respond to an emergency. I know I would rather separate with a few bits of First Aid equipment and not have to respond again.
Regards
Tjupurula
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Jeez is it myswag's day for car crashes?
This afternoon i get a call from my wife's phone, but there was a strange man on the phone. You know something's happend when he says "Hi, i'm with your wife... she's fine but there's been a car accident with a truck..."
So i shove the kids in the car and I raced there, 13klm away, to find this:
(http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp300/jeeps_photo/VRX/Lancer06.jpg)
(http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp300/jeeps_photo/VRX/Lancer04.jpg)
(http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp300/jeeps_photo/VRX/Lancer10.jpg)
It appears that the driver of the truck has not taken the height bypass and hit the bridge. The shipping container was securely fastened to the tray but the tray has sheared off the truck chassis and simply dropped to the ground abruptly while the truck kept going. My wife who was several car lengths back braked and ploughed into the protruding tray, sliced the radiator and who knows what else. The lancer could not be separated without the tow trucks.
It was enough of a shunt to knock the bridge's pillars:
(http://i421.photobucket.com/albums/pp300/jeeps_photo/VRX/Lancer14.jpg)
Anyway, my wife received basic first aid for bruises and shock and spent a few hours in the local hospital. She's complaining of neck/shoulder pain etc but thankfully she's fine. If she had been following the truck too closely it may have been much worse. Hopefully the car is not a writeoff.
You never know what you can come across on the road. I always carry a 12v flashing beacon, several high powered torches with strobes, first aid, etc all the goodies. You can never be too prepared!
cheers
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Jeeps,
Great pictures, they certainly do tell the story, glad to see your wife is OK, scary if you were directly behind the truck and seen that happening.
If she was traveling for work, make sure you hit the boss up for workers compensation as it would be defined as a " Journeymans claim" and the employer is required to pay it like a workace injury.
The girl I was dealing with tonight had finished a shift and heading home when the incident happened.
Cheers
Campfire
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Jeeps,
Great pictures, they certainly do tell the story, glad to see your wife is OK, scary if you were directly behind the truck and seen that happening.
If she was traveling for work, make sure you hit the boss up for workers compensation as it would be defined as a " Journeymans claim" and the employer is required to pay it like a workace injury.
The girl I was dealing with tonight had finished a shift and heading home when the incident happened.
Cheers
Campfire
Damn... i'm her employer... LOL ;D >:D
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Don't make it too complicated. First Aid is about basic care until help arrives. Don't worry about the Glasgow Coma Score and proprioception. For someone hanging upside down in a car, as part of your Primary Survey of DRABC, a simple AVPU assessment is enough. After that, it's usually enough to identify the location/intensity of the pain and injuries.
AVPU; Are they ALERT? Do they respond to VOICE? Do they respond to PAIN? Are they UNRESPONSIVE? For what it's worth, A corresponds to a GCS of about 14-15, V is about 9-13, P is about 6-8 and U is 3 to 5.
I've put a small DIY kit in my wife's car for around town. I've made it up using a medium sized camera bag. There's enough for minor injuries, plus there's an ampoule of adrenaline and a Ventolin puffer. Just the basics as it's unlikely the ambulance will take too long in the city. My own kit is a little larger ::) I've got oxygen and a defibrillator.
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In Eastern Europe its law to carry high viz jackets/vests x2, or or each person in the car, 2 x emergency triangles, first aid kit.
Western Europe, 1 x high viz jacket, 1 x triangle, first aid kit. (admitedly no set standards for either first aid kit.)
UK, No such requirements. hmm
Australia, again no such requirements. double hmm.
I am amazed that its not a requirement to carry high viz jackets/vests and emergency triangles here.
They cost pittance and take no space.
In all countries mentioned above, (east and west) its illegal to sell a car without the required safety gear.
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Great thread. Jeeps, glad to hear your wife came throught that ok!!! As you say it could have been far worse.
Cruisindub, while I personally understand the value of carrying high-vis vests and first aid kit (I have a vest, safety triangles and kit in the Patrol, and just the kit in the Territory which does local duty), if the owner doesn't know how to use the kit, or understand the need to get the triangles out, it's sort of pointless... I imagine that given the higher focus Europeans have on driving there is a fair chance they'd also understand the use of the safety gear, but Australia with its slack driver focus is probably never going to go down that path. Then again, if government here sees a buck in it...
Be prepared! I will check my gear in an hour, before I set off on my 100km commute...
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Jeez is it myswag's day for car crashes?
This afternoon i get a call from my wife's phone, but there was a strange man on the phone. You know something's happend when he says "Hi, i'm with your wife... she's fine but there's been a car accident with a truck..."
So i shove the kids in the car and I raced there, 13klm away, to find this:
Wow that's nasty, glad your wife is ok
I don't understand how this happens with 'professional' drivers...
If she was traveling for work, make sure you hit the boss up for workers compensation as it would be defined as a " Journeymans claim" and the employer is required to pay it like a workace injury.
I am pretty sure this was changed in VIC and doesn't apply anymore unless being on the road is your job.
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My own kit is a little larger ::) I've got oxygen and a defibrillator.
I hope if I am ever involved in an accident you are following me.
Cheers
Parry
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I hope if I am ever involved in an accident you are following me.
Cheers
Parry
Even better with Bay Watch Red Lifesaver shorts, and no shirt on doing it " HOFF STYLE" with the Baywatch theme song blazing away in the background.
Campfire. :cheers:
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Even better with Bay Watch Red Lifesaver shorts, and no shirt on doing it " HOFF STYLE" with the Baywatch theme song blazing away in the background.
You know what? I don't think I'd care!!! If Patr80l brings his oxygen and adrenaline he can even do away with the shorts.
Good work Campfire - some great lessons from your experience last night. Makes me shudder just thinking about it. I hadn't even thought about the need for strong leather gloves, but it's so obvious really.
Jeeps - that's scary. I'm glad to hear your wife is OK. Looking at that, it's amazing she wasn't hurt more. That bridge won't be taking any traffic for a while. If you need to, please tie her up and force her to get followup treatment on her neck. My big accident was ~13 years ago now, and I had a couple of basic physio sessions at the time then was pronounced fine. Unfortunately for me now, the damage is done and I've got to live with the neck and back pain, but it's avoidable if you get the right rehab at the time. Consequently, I now jam this down everyone's throats in the hope that they don't end up like me.
Again, well done Campfire in helping the young girl last night. I'll be reviewing my first aid kit tonight. Even though it travels in the car all the time, I'm not real good on it's use.
Thanks,
Matto :)
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You know what? I don't think I'd care!!! If Patr80l brings his oxygen and adrenaline he can even do away with the shorts.
Thanks,
Matto :)
Ummmmm, would you care to rephrase that Matto. I'm sure the last thing on Patr80l's mind at that moment would be removing his shorts. ;D ;D ;D
:cheers:
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In Eastern Europe its law to carry high viz jackets/vests x2, or or each person in the car, 2 x emergency triangles, first aid kit.
Western Europe, 1 x high viz jacket, 1 x triangle, first aid kit. (admitedly no set standards for either first aid kit.)
UK, No such requirements. hmm
Australia, again no such requirements. double hmm.
I am amazed that its not a requirement to carry high viz jackets/vests and emergency triangles here.
They cost pittance and take no space.
In all countries mentioned above, (east and west) its illegal to sell a car without the required safety gear.
The vastly differing road safety requirements between Europe and here are also noticed with child car seat restraints. ISOFIX is currently under review here, yet is (and has been for many years with great safety record) compulsory in many European countries.
Lil :)
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Jeeps,
Great pictures, they certainly do tell the story, glad to see your wife is OK, scary if you were directly behind the truck and seen that happening.
If she was traveling for work, make sure you hit the boss up for workers compensation as it would be defined as a " Journeymans claim" and the employer is required to pay it like a workace injury.
The girl I was dealing with tonight had finished a shift and heading home when the incident happened.
Cheers
Campfire
A lot of the states and insurances have cut out the claims for travelling too and from work with compensation, just a sign of the times.
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Ummmmm, would you care to rephrase that Matto. I'm sure the last thing on Patr80l's mind at that moment would be removing his shorts. ;D ;D ;D
:cheers:
Ahhh, but you would forget your pain!
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A lot of the states and insurances have cut out the claims for travelling too and from work with compensation, just a sign of the times.
FYI - Journey claims are still possible in QLD. There's 2 ways to go, either a claim against Workcover (which gets you money for treatment straight away, but is capped to how much you can get) or a claim against the insurance company (which takes longer, but can get the client more money). You can actually do both, and when the insurance claim settles you pay back whatever Workcover have paid out. This is a good way to go - gets the injured person money straight away so they can get the treatment they need, but leaves their options open.
Of course, this is all dependent upon the client not having done something silly. If you're severely drunk when you crash, don't expect anyone to have much sympathy for you. ;D
If the new mooted National compensation scheme comes in though, this all goes out the window.
</offtopic>
Cheers!
Matto :)
(who is not a lawyer, so don't take any of my advice ever - legal or otherwise...)
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Ummmmm, would you care to rephrase that Matto. I'm sure the last thing on Patr80l's mind at that moment would be removing his shorts. ;D ;D ;D
:cheers:
I'm too scared to ask, but last time I checked, CPR techniques hadn't changed.
Am I missing something.
Campfire ;D
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You know what? I don't think I'd care!!! If Patr80l brings his oxygen and adrenaline he can even do away with the shorts.Thanks,
Matto :)
Whatever floats your boat Matto.... ;D
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You guys have obviously never had either O2 or adrenaline. Better than crack! (speaking about pants off...)
Cheers!
Matto :)
(You don't want to know what I'll do for morphine... :D )
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You guys have obviously never had either O2 or adrenaline. Better than crack! (speaking about pants )
Now I understand your technique,
DRABC
Call 000
Pants off
Crack for pain relief
wait for ambo's to arrive.....
Cheers
Campfire :cup:
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Ahhh, but you would forget your pain!
Laughter always cures pain, well it does in my kids anyway. ;D ;D ;D ;D
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At the risk of getting way off topic ...
I am always worried about what the result would be if you went into the back of a tilt tray , at speed , with that ramp at windscreen/ eye level ....
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At the risk of getting way off topic ...
I am always worried about what the result would be if you went into the back of a tilt tray , at speed , with that ramp at windscreen/ eye level ....
To say the least I would assert that you would have a "splitting headache".
Tjupurula
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At the risk of getting way off topic ...
I am always worried about what the result would be if you went into the back of a tilt tray , at speed , with that ramp at windscreen/ eye level ....
If it ha a second lift under the back you would stand half a chance, I've attended an accident where one didn't. :'( :'(
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You guys have obviously never had either O2 or adrenaline. Better than crack! (speaking about pants off...)
Cheers!
Matto :)
(You don't want to know what I'll do for morphine... :D )
:-* I've got some of that too. ;D
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If it ha a second lift under the back you would stand half a chance, I've attended an accident where one didn't. :'( :'(
I saw a forensic pathologist's photo once of a bikie who had ridden into a cable (not sure why the cable was where it was). His head was missing above the level of the mid-nose. Nice clean slice. The first photo was taken before the autopsy with the deceased lying on a stainless steel trolley, wearing a black T shirt. He must have known something that morning when he chose to wear his "Sh1t Happens" T Shirt.
I know, I know, This thread is worthless without pics!
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Getting off the morbid stuff, has anybody on this forum done the remote area first aid course through St Johns.
Just curious what it's delivery and subject structure is like.
I did look at other courses years ago like PTLS or MIMM's, but that was back at a time when it was applicable to my career and Uni studies.
Changed career since then so it hasn't been as relevant.
Still don't mind looking at courses which support personal safety in recreational interests like remote area. Enjoy surfing websites like Wilderness Medicine etc.
There is alot of St Johns first aid courses in WA you can't get in NSW which look really good and quite deep in practical hands on. Best you can get in NSW is the Occupational First Aid Course.
St Johns is a worthy organization, and I have no doubt that their training has helped saved many lives. I have a daughter who wants to join as a volunteer first aider instead of doing scouts.
First aid courses should be compulsory in all high schools
Cheers
Campfire
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A lot of the states and insurances have cut out the claims for travelling too and from work with compensation, just a sign of the times.
In Victoria, the current Workers Compensation Claim form has a section on "Does this claim involve a motor vehicle". If you fill this in, I beleive the Transport Accident Commission becomes the lead insurer.
This may change in the future, current talk is about Government here combining TAC and Workcover. Hopefully this doesnt occur.
RE first aid, a five day Advanced first aid course in Vic costs about $500 to $600. Not sure if its the same as remote, but covers advanced life support.
If I were in remote locations a lot I reckon this woujld be worthwhile.
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Campfire,
Have a look at the Parasol website.....have a 3 and 4 day remote area course with Nationally Accredited Courses.
Cheers
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In Victoria, the current Workers Compensation Claim form has a section on "Does this claim involve a motor vehicle". If you fill this in, I beleive the Transport Accident Commission becomes the lead insurer.
This may change in the future, current talk is about Government here combining TAC and Workcover. Hopefully this doesnt occur.
RE first aid, a five day Advanced first aid course in Vic costs about $500 to $600. Not sure if its the same as remote, but covers advanced life support.
If I were in remote locations a lot I reckon this woujld be worthwhile.
Hi Mace
It would be so wonderful if a lot more people had your outlook, and were prepared to such a course. As I previously said, I am involved with the Desert Rescue Service, in the capacity that I take heaps of tools and my welding equipment with my gen set, as the last few times it has been a couple of hours of repairs to get someone back on their travels. Owing to this involvement, the team (including myself) were given extensive remote first aid training for minimal cost, and it was great to learn.
Regards
Tjupurula
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I've posted this before, but if people haven't seen it yet, here it is again; the WA Police Aids To Survival . I'm not sure if this is the latest version (2002). It's hard to find on Govt sites but lots of bushcraft and survival sites from around the world have cached pdf copies.
http://www.bushcraftuk.com/downloads/pdf/aids22.pdf (http://www.bushcraftuk.com/downloads/pdf/aids22.pdf)
In my surfing I found a couple of other interesting sites FYI.
http://www.wildsurvive.com/outdoor-camping-forum/index.php (http://www.wildsurvive.com/outdoor-camping-forum/index.php)
http://www.em.gov.au/Publications/Australianemergencymanualseries/Pages/default.aspx (http://www.em.gov.au/Publications/Australianemergencymanualseries/Pages/default.aspx) is the Australian Govt's Emergency Management site with lots of publications of varying relevance.
http://www.em.gov.au/Documents/Manual37-4WDVehicleOperation.pdf (http://www.em.gov.au/Documents/Manual37-4WDVehicleOperation.pdf) caught my eye.
I believe that Remote Area First Aid is an Australian Qualification Framework standard qualification, which means that the same syllabus will be taught by many RTO's. However most organisations that teach Level 1 & 2 and CPR courses wouldn't offer it. Mine doesn't.
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Hi Pat80l
The first aid course we went through involved all what I would assume is normal first aid, we also had clear instructions on using towels with water for someone dehydrated (to prevent gulping water), the use of wet sheets to cover someone again who is totally dehydrated, and quite a few things like that. We were also instructed to give them small portions of food frequently until they were totally coherent. Basically a few add ons like that.
Either way it was a great course that made us feel a lot more confident to handle various situations that could come up here in the desert country.
Regards
Tjupurula
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I've looked at the AQF syllabus and it looks like a good course. I've thought of doing it….. it's on my list. ;D
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I am pretty sure this was changed in VIC and doesn't apply anymore unless being on the road is your job.« Last Edit: March 14, 2012, 05:35:45 AM by D4D »
Still in place mate your workers comp insurer then passes the cost onto the TAC