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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Heiny on October 29, 2011, 05:54:28 PM
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Qantas has grounded its entire fleet from 5pm today and will lockout staff
http://www.radionz.co.nz/news/world/89565/qantas-grounds-entire-fleet-and-will-lock-out-staff
Good on Qantas I say, for standing up to the unrealistic demands from the unions :cup:
bubba :cheers:
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Yer good on them it is costing them $15m a week now, it will cost them a lot more with this decision, but screw the unions, they can't hold 1 of the worlds biggest companies to ransom.
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I was just reading it.
Qantas grounds entire fleet (http://www.news.com.au/travel/news/qantas-grounds-entire-fleet/story-e6frfq80-1226180315331)
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This is going to get interesting. Virgin has been hammering QF frequent flyers with a big push as they want the business traveller. I might be taking my first Virgin flights if QF don't get back in the air soon.
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Im sure the qantas ceo and all the other top heavy qantas administrators will still get their great big multi million dollar salaries while the poor workers try for a couple off dollars more
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I had to laugh at this comment, a bit rich coming from the government who removed Workchoices and therefore allowed this dispute to get to this point.
QANTAS' decision to ground its fleet without advanced notice to the government is ''a breach of faith,'' federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese says.
Is Joyce the next Corrigan?
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Every business reaches a point that it can not afford to pay its employees more.
Every employee wants more pay.
Every union wants more members so must be seen to be getting more money for their members.
Sooner or latter a stalemate is reached. I have some personal experience of a union demanding more and more from my employer.
The owner of the business then realized they would make more money with less stress if they sacked every one (about 500 workers) and sold all their real estate. Guess what they did?
Wasn't their another major airline in Australia once that was regarded as a great place to work with high pay and conditions?(i am told by former workers)
What was it called?
Yes i do think the ceo's are well and truly overpaid.But he answers to shareholders not unions.
my 2cents
Brett
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I had to laugh at this comment, a bit rich coming from the government who removed Workchoices and therefore allowed this dispute to get to this point.
QANTAS' decision to ground its fleet without advanced notice to the government is ''a breach of faith,'' federal Transport Minister Anthony Albanese says.
Is Joyce the next Corrigan?
I'm LMFAO at this comment because the ranga said last night that the Government would not intervein and now Anthony has the Kleenex out and having a sook ;D
This Government gave the Unions more power when Rudd got in and now look what has happened >:(
Im sure the qantas ceo and all the other top heavy qantas administrators will still get their great big multi million dollar salaries while the poor workers try for a couple off dollars more
This recent industrial action had cost Qantas 70 million dollars to date (15 million per day) NO company regardless of size can sustain those losses, the industrial action is about more than money, one of the unions were demanding Qantas build a new hangar!! WTF has that got to do with the unions ??? ???
Poor workers my a#*e >:( greedy workers and their unions are one of the reasons that so many Australian businesses have had to increase prices, source materials/manufacturing off shore and become uncompetetive.
If Qantas had bowed down to the demands of the unions, they would have become uncompetetive on the global market and slowly gone broke.
It's ok for the workers to take industrial action , so now Qantas have taken it against them and well done to Qantas for doing it :cup: Qantas were facing threats of 24 and 48 hour strikes from early next week, so they had little choice but to do what they are doing now.
The unions have now placed thier own members jobs in jepeordy ??? well done :cheers: I hope they are happy now ;D
bubba :cheers:
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Is Joyce the next Corrigan?
Not a moment before time... and if I were him I would have given Corrigan a ring for a chat through the week.
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My concerns are:
1. What damage is Alan Joyce's actions having on the Qantas brand?
2. We are talking about an airline which was losing $15million per week due to the industrial action, but Mr Joyce's actions will cost the airline $20million per day (that is $140 million per week) - how does this sit with shareholders?
3. How will Mr Joyce's actions affect travellers that are trying to get home domestically? What about those that are trying to get to sick family members?
4. How will Mr Joyce's action affect the tourism industry in Australia? The industry is already struggling, and this action will only exaserbate that issue.
Whilst I agree that unions are probably being over the top, the actions of Qantas management appear to have been both misleading and deceptive at the AGM of Qantas yesterday, given that Qantas management had begun pre-booking hotel rooms on Thursday.
Anyway, rant over!
Cheers Grant
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1. Less than the damage the unions have done
2. Joyce reports to the shareholders, if they didn't like him they wouldn't have given him a pay rise
3. Both domestic and international are grounded and yes it is a sh!t sandwich if you're stuck somewhere, Virgin are rubbing their hands together
4. Most overseas visitors don't fly in on QF
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It is shades of the pilots strike in the 80's all over again.
If Qantas has to sack all and bring in new workers...so be it. It has happened before. Not a happy resolution but one all the same.
I find it quite astounding at comments I am seeing on Facebook where for example one of my "friends" says "now you know why I don't fly Qantas."
Actually, I don't know why they don't. Personally, I fly with them any chance I get. With a safety record that no other airline in the world can match, why would you fly any other?
I would bet my new FJ that Virgin employs more overseas staff than Qantas... ::)
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My concerns are:
1. What damage is Alan Joyce's actions having on the Qantas brand?
2. We are talking about an airline which was losing $15million per week due to the industrial action, but Mr Joyce's actions will cost the airline $20million per day (that is $140 million per week) - how does this sit with shareholders?
3. How will Mr Joyce's actions affect travellers that are trying to get home domestically? What about those that are trying to get to sick family members?
4. How will Mr Joyce's action affect the tourism industry in Australia? The industry is already struggling, and this action will only exaserbate that issue.
Whilst I agree that unions are probably being over the top, the actions of Qantas management appear to have been both misleading and deceptive at the AGM of Qantas yesterday, given that Qantas management had begun pre-booking hotel rooms on Thursday.
Anyway, rant over!
Cheers Grant
1. This is a Board decision, not just Alan Joyce's and I'm sure it's a calculated risk.
2. The indusrial action by the unions has been going on for months! this action by Qantas will not be for long and will hurt Qantas far more than anyone else involved and they have little choice as they can not bow down to the demands of the unions
3. Simarly to how the union members strikes affect them, but there are other airlines in Australia.
4. Refer to # 3
Far from over
bubba :cheers:
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Pot kettle black ::)
"Alan Joyce is holding a knife to the nation's throat," Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) vice-president Richard Woodward said.
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It is shades of the pilots strike in the 80's all over again.
If Qantas has to sack all and bring in new workers...so be it. It has happened before. Not a happy resolution but one all the same.
I find it quite astounding at comments I am seeing on Facebook where for example one of my "friends" says "now you know why I don't fly Qantas."
Actually, I don't know why they don't. Personally, I fly with them any chance I get. With a safety record that no other airline in the world can match, why would you fly any other?
I would bet my new FJ that Virgin employs more overseas staff than Qantas... ::)
I totally agree with you Duchess :cheers: Qantas is by far the best airline that I have ever been on and thier safetey record is untouchable :cup:
bubba :cheers:
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Yeah but you have to put up with sh!t service and snarly flight crews
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Pot kettle black ::)
"Alan Joyce is holding a knife to the nation's throat," Australian and International Pilots Association (AIPA) vice-president Richard Woodward said.
Yes it appears that when the unions are the ones doing it all is good, but when the shoe is on the other foot ??? ??? ???
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my 2 cents.
Unions ( another word for Catfish........bottom feeders) >:(
when i was going through high school my father was in the underground coal mines in Newcastle. Unions thought it was a dandy idea to go on strike for a couple of months to hurt the coal mining company. we lived on rations for that time while the Union bosses still were getting paid and living the high life.
not at all a fan of the Cat fish.
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Yeah but you have to put up with sh!t service and snarly flight crews
Are you talking about Qantas?
In all my years of flying with them, I have never experienced this ???...and I have a few FF miles up with them too...not to mention all the great blokes I know who are pilots with them and LAME's...go figure, I am sorry you have had a bad experience.
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I bet Alan Joyce didn't hand back his 2 million bonus for the good of the company.
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my 2 cents.
Unions ( another word for Catfish........bottom feeders) >:(
when i was going through high school my father was in the underground coal mines in Newcastle. Unions thought it was a dandy idea to go on strike for a couple of months to hurt the coal mining company. we lived on rations for that time while the Union bosses still were getting paid and living the high life.
not at all a fan of the Cat fish.
Living the high life from from your Father's and his fellow workers union fee's deducted from his very hard earned wage >:(, more like leaches than catfish I reckon
bubba :cheers:
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Are you talking about Qantas?
In all my years of flying with them, I have never experienced this ???...and I have a few FF miles up with them too...not to mention all the great blokes I know who are pilots with them and LAME's...go figure, I am sorry you have had a bad experience.
Yup I used to fly QF 3 weeks a month for a few years, now 2-3 times a month.
The latest issue was BNE airport. First time travelling with the baby and needed to heat the bottle up. Microwave was not working in the Parent's room. I had to get the shift supervisor into the QF club to get a jug of hot water because it was against OH&S to give it to me. Wife was a little distressed as our boy was not happy he had to wait for his milk. Didn't seem to bother the snarly CSM behind the counter. She won't be getting employee of the month after the emails I sent to her management.
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I bet Alan Joyce didn't hand back his 2 million bonus for the good of the company.
Why should he?
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The fun has only just begun with this sort of action. Whilst the Ranga is non commital (sniggering under her breath) this sort of action is going to become the norm. Storm clouds ahead people!!!!!!!!
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I bet Alan Joyce didn't hand back his 2 million bonus for the good of the company.
He possibly gets paid too much or maybe you/we are jelous of his success ???
This is not about Alan Joyce, it's about unions being unflexable with there demands of a great Australian company that wants to expand it's business offshore.
Australian's don't like off shore company's expanding into the domestic market and now we don't want one of Australia's greatest company's expanding it's business into other countries, so WTF do we want then ???
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I thought most union bosses in AU were scotsmen, here is one (Joyce) who is the company boss. Go figure.
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Quannthas......... Why do workers (Australians) have to listen to a belligerent import, spinning the Ryan Air etc business model, in the name of globalisation? Buggered if I know!
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It is called compete or die, pretty simple concept really.
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Alan Joyce is a member of the IRA – Irishmen Ruining Airlines
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For a little bloke, Joyce has some big balls...but behind him is the Qantas board, they would have been planning this weeks ago... it's sad to see what is happening
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There used to be a company in Bundaberg called Toft's, they used to build the Toft cane harvester there, the best harvesters in the world, and just because the company was selling a few the large number of staff thought they needed a pay rise and did their hardest to get it. Management said F.U, shut the whole show down and took it off shore. now they are fully imported instead of being made in Qld. So it wasn't a real smart idea.
Unions can not hold 1 of the biggest companies in the world for ransom, Qantas employs 35000+ people worldwide. In these tough times they should be greatful for a secure job, well secure until about 3pm today
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I am no unionist but its a bit rich for the ceo to get a 75% pay rise while playing hard ball.
(Sorry if this was already said :) )
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From what was stated on TV tonight, Qantas was definitely loosing money daily, and it is being caused by the stop work rules by the 3 unions.
BUT... Qantas had no idea what flights were available or not available when the flight was scheduled to leave.
This was entirely due to disruptions by the 3 unions, so Qantas just said 'enough is enough'
They have stopped all flights, so the public, yes you an me, the people who rely on getting somewhere when the flight schedule says it is going, it should be able to be relied upon, now the schedule is - no flights at all :'(
So now at least we can book a flight and know we are going to get where we want to go and arrive on time, as we used to do with Qantas.
I can say no QF flights were recomended to me when I booked my 4th Dec flight to Melbourne - Gold Coast - Perth last week.
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The unions are about to have no-one to represent and although they seem to be unreasonable it is also true that no-one trusts that Joyce won't do whatever it takes to get his hands on those incentives in his personal package.
At the end of the day both parties are trying to get as much as they can whilst they can.
Welcometo the new world I am afraid.
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At the end of the day both parties are trying to get as much as they can whilst they can.
Welcometo the new world I am afraid.
What "new world" ??? this has been happening for eternity
I am no unionist but its a bit rich for the ceo to get a 75% pay rise while playing hard ball.
"hard ball" ??? he is trying to keep the company competetive. He is obviously doing his job very well if they gave him a 75% pay rise, no company just gives money away for nothing.
bubba :cheers:
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I reckon Mr Borghetti (Virgin CEO) will be rubbing his hands together.
Since his time at the helm they have been chasing the business traveller and this is evident in there approach to staff presentation and advertising focus.
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I am no unionist but its a bit rich for the ceo to get a 75% pay rise while playing hard ball.
(Sorry if this was already said :) )
X2
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X2
Yes, timing was poor on this but put it into perspective of what overseas CEO's get and it is still peanuts.
The pilots, check in staff, baggage handlers etc are still the highest paid of any airline in Australia. These are the people along with the unions holding not only QANTAS but there paying passengers to ransom.
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1. Less than the damage the unions have done
2. Joyce reports to the shareholders, if they didn't like him they wouldn't have given him a pay rise
3. Both domestic and international are grounded and yes it is a sh!t sandwich if you're stuck somewhere, Virgin are rubbing their hands together
4. Most overseas visitors don't fly in on QF
And lets be real clear. They want money for jobs that are needed any more. Tasks that are not even performed any more due to new engine designs and how about the pilots that fly 767's wanting the same pay as one that fly's a A380. There needs to be incentive to work for what you get and honestly those that have out in the extra yards to fly the big planes deserve more money it's called inspiration to be better, not I want more Can any one really think that a company should promise a job - No Way. What a W@nk. I hate these union types that think they have a right to disrupt every one for rights that you and I don't have or expect. it'a all about the knobs that think they have that right, the union leaders. had some thing similar years ago in Sydney with Shell where they decided to block off the M4 so every one couldn't get to work because they thought we should all be disadvantaged because they couldn't work out a deal.
And good on Qantas for at least thinking about the travelers by pre -planning. The unions don't and are happy to just p1ss us all off at their wim by going on strike.
As bubba says, their restructuring and the changing direction of a huge organization is no easy task. They earn what they get.
it just goes on and on. So for the record good on Qantas and you know what. I'd do the same because the days of a union power running this country have to end. Times changes and they need to move on. I bet most of you work your arse off every week and maybe even are happy to have a job but these lot seem to think it's OK to be greedy. There is a breaking point where it is no longer viable to run a company and just think about those engineers that want to be paid for work that is no longer viable. A bit like me getting paid to re-pack wheel bearings on the Paj when they are now sealed units. They need to upgrade their skills and move on
OK. Sure this will invoke some great feed back
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And lets be real clear. They want money for jobs that are needed any more. Tasks that are not even performed any more due to new engine designs and how about the pilots that fly 767's wanting the same pay as one that fly's a A380.
Virgin is trying the same. Pilots that fly the Embraer are trying to get the same as those that fly the A330. It comes down to responsibility as well. Having control over 70 passengers as opposed to 300 deserves more pay. The higher the number the higher the responsibility. It is no different to someone managing a staff of 10 to that of 50 deserving more rewards.
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have to remember the CEO of a publicly listed company has to have his 'pay' and any subsequent 'pay increase' approved by the BOARD of MANAGEMENT of the company.
The CEO does not have the capacity to award himself a payraise with out it first being approved by the Board of Management, and they are directly responsible to the investors in the company who vote them onto the Board yearly.
I assure you he would not be getting the money he is claimed to get, if the investors were unhappy with the financial returns of the company.
You pay peanuts and all you get is all lookalike, thinkalike, talkalot monkeys ;D
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have to remember the CEO of a publicly listed company has to have his 'pay' and any subsequent 'pay increase' approved by the BOARD of MANAGEMENT of the company.
The CEO does not have the capacity to award himself a payraise with out it first being approved by the Board of Management, and they are directly responsible to the investors in the company who vote them onto the Board yearly.
Completely agree, Alan Joyce did not just award himself this pay-rise. It was agreed upon by the board and ultimately the shareholders.
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Has anyone noticed that under Work Choices we had very little industrial unrest. Now with a party in power, albeit by a thread, that is suppossed to support the worker and stand for workers rights, we have greater industrial unrest than in the last 10 years. Seems to happen every time those union w@nkers get a little airtime in parliment.
Just my 2cents.
:cheers: Cracka
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I have been on this foroum for some time and thought most of you were good aussie who love Australia and the way of life .But reading your red neck comments see you now as a a pack of fu#k wits that read the Murdoch press and thats it . I am a Qantas LAME for 27 years and we are asking for a pay rise only 3% each year below inflation , and are asking that we are able to bid for contract work before it is sent overseas , if we are not the lowest bid then we lose the contract . All we are asking before it is sent overseas that we get a chance to bid for it .
I read all the threds about buying Aust and a shame is all gone to china etc etc but you bag us for trying to keep our jobs and Qantas in Australia .Well heres a fact Qantas had planed to ground all its fleet 10 days ago but still sold tickets and did not inform the public . The Lames called off all industrial action until 10th nov long before this.
When Qantas made 1.5 billion profit we took a 2% pay rise 2% lower than inflation because we took Qantas on its word that they were going to build the business , and they started Jet star and took work away from us .
I do not want a guaranteed job , I earn my job though hard work , but to see the share price go from $5.60 to $1.30 in 3 years and $72 million go to the board as a reward !!!!!
I will stand up for corporate greed any day !!!!!!!! So all the knockers sit back and have a good look at your posts about keeping things in Aust and your rants about that and then reflect on your own double standards .
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Intersting insight by Terry McCrann
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/this-could-be-the-end-of-an-airline/story-fn7x8me2-1226180553453
Digger - I understand your situation but your strikes have already p!ssed off customers which is why you don't have any support. I don't read the Murdoch press, I am a 12 year QF FF who has been inconvinienced due to your strike action. Looks like I will be a Virgin customer now as they have been chasing my business hard for months and have already matched my QF FF status.
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the unions are fighting to keep qantas, australian. to keep jobs in australia for australians. look what has happened since the maintenece has gone overseas, from one the best airline to no.8 allready and falling rapidly. why, profit to the shareholders and executives, cheaper pay more profit for them. think chinese camper here!!! how would you feel if your boss took a 75% pay increase, and you couldnt get a pissy 3%... my prediction, BYE BYE Qantas in the name of corporate greed
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Has anyone noticed that under Work Choices we had very little industrial unrest. Now with a party in power, albeit by a thread, that is suppossed to support the worker and stand for workers rights, we have greater industrial unrest than in the last 10 years. Seems to happen every time those union w@nkers get a little airtime in parliment.
Just my 2cents.
:cheers: Cracka
Spot on Cracka :cup: bring back Work Choices for the sake of Australian business
bubba :cheers:
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I hope the unions are proud of their work ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, everything they touch they stuff .
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Oh to be a fly on the wall in the Qantas Boardroom at the moment...they, the executive of the company are taking the whole company to the brink.
I can't believe that James Strong, ex CEO of Qantas and Australian, would allow this very extreme measure to happen, of my conversations with him, he seemed a person who would listen, add up the pros and con's, then act accordingly. He never seemed a confrontationalist type of personality. Many hours were spent, talking and discussing problems through.
If James Strong has any real strong feelings of honour and repect of people as he has spoken about on many occasions....then he should resign and not be a party of this action.
The media is lapping this up for all it is worth, the right wing press are loving it...Abott and co are smiling all the way to the next election.
Qantas is a public company, not owned by the government any more (Like it still should be) so which ever government was in power, they can do fk all, it is up to the parties concerned and the arbitrators to sort this mess out...not the court of public opinion and redneck rightwing media.
There is talk of the competition that Qantas faces internationally.
Singapore Airlines (50% government directly owned...20% indirectlly.... through intermeditary government departments)
Etihad...Owners...United Arab Emerates
Emirates...ex Gulf Air...Saudi government
So you have 3 of the most progressive and aggressive airlines in our neck of the woods...over 70% government owned with open check books.
Don't get me started on the Chinese Airlines....that are sniffing around.
So I hear complaints by people, saying that there is nothing Australian again...every thing is going overseas, there is no more industry in Australia any more.
Well Hellow, I hate to tell you, the CEO of Qantas and his board want to do the same with Qantas....send jobs and our Australian expertese overseas....
The arguements of wages and industrial blackmail, union thuggery, high profits, executive pays and such are all sidelines to the main show...the moving offshore of Qantas.
It means the survival of another Australan company...the second oldest profitable airline in the world.
Hudson Fysh would be turning over in his grave..
It's just a bloody crying shame.
I am just dumbfounded, that Strong and a couple of others( who will remain nameless) have been bullied by Leigh, to back this utter stupid executive decision.
In all industrial action, there are three sides to the whole argument...your side, their side and the truth.
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I have been on this foroum for some time and thought most of you were good aussie who love Australia and the way of life .But reading your red neck comments see you now as a a pack of fu#k wits that read the Murdoch press and thats it . I am a Qantas LAME for 27 years and we are asking for a pay rise only 3% each year below inflation , and are asking that we are able to bid for contract work before it is sent overseas , if we are not the lowest bid then we lose the contract . All we are asking before it is sent overseas that we get a chance to bid for it .
I read all the threds about buying Aust and a shame is all gone to china etc etc but you bag us for trying to keep our jobs and Qantas in Australia .Well heres a fact Qantas had planed to ground all its fleet 10 days ago but still sold tickets and did not inform the public . The Lames called off all industrial action until 10th nov long before this.
When Qantas made 1.5 billion profit we took a 2% pay rise 2% lower than inflation because we took Qantas on its word that they were going to build the business , and they started Jet star and took work away from us .
I do not want a guaranteed job , I earn my job though hard work , but to see the share price go from $5.60 to $1.30 in 3 years and $72 million go to the board as a reward !!!!!
I will stand up for corporate greed any day !!!!!!!! So all the knockers sit back and have a good look at your posts about keeping things in Aust and your rants about that and then reflect on your own double standards .
Well said Digger, dont worry mate ill stand be side you, i too am going thru something very similar only in the mining industry, oh i can hear the comments now " the mining industry, how much pay do you want", and as for Allan Joyce, hes nothing more then a stinking greedy corporate prick out for himself.
Hang in there digger, i better i get of now i'm getting fired up.
To think we are Aussies. unreal
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I have been on this foroum for some time and thought most of you were good aussie who love Australia and the way of life .But reading your red neck comments see you now as a a pack of fu#k wits that read the Murdoch press and thats it . I am a Qantas LAME for 27 years and we are asking for a pay rise only 3% each year below inflation , and are asking that we are able to bid for contract work before it is sent overseas , if we are not the lowest bid then we lose the contract . All we are asking before it is sent overseas that we get a chance to bid for it .
I read all the threds about buying Aust and a shame is all gone to china etc etc but you bag us for trying to keep our jobs and Qantas in Australia .Well heres a fact Qantas had planed to ground all its fleet 10 days ago but still sold tickets and did not inform the public . The Lames called off all industrial action until 10th nov long before this.
When Qantas made 1.5 billion profit we took a 2% pay rise 2% lower than inflation because we took Qantas on its word that they were going to build the business , and they started Jet star and took work away from us .
I do not want a guaranteed job , I earn my job though hard work , but to see the share price go from $5.60 to $1.30 in 3 years and $72 million go to the board as a reward !!!!!
I will stand up for corporate greed any day !!!!!!!! So all the knockers sit back and have a good look at your posts about keeping things in Aust and your rants about that and then reflect on your own double standards .
Congratulations, in chasing a 3% wage increase you, your fellow workers and your unions have placed your job of 27 years in jeopardy along with the future of one of Australia's great company's, (you wouldn't still be there if they weren't good to work for)
The SA civil construction industry which I have worked in for over 20 years is currently experiencing it's toughest time in at least those last 20 years, new land development has all but stopped, the only projects our great SA Government >:D releases (many have been put on the back burner again) are packaged in such a way that nearly all local company's cannot compete with the very large national company's who also have less taxes than the SA companies and while the big company's are here they tender for the smaller contracts also. SA company's are going into receivership, workers have no or very little work, workers are going interstate or the mining industry to seek work (and don't come back) when Olympic Dam expands they will take allot more workers from the civil industry and company's like the one I work for, who have invested massive amounts of time and money to upskill their workers so that we can remain competitive. Our state Government is so focussed on the mining industry (also a very important industry for our state) at present that it's letting the local civil construction industry collapse.
Our Group of company's also invest in land developments, we have commenced work on one of these projects (even though the land is not selling at present) in an attempt to retain as many of our workers as possible, in the hope that work will pick up soon. Other company's do not have this luxury and have lost or put off it's workers, I have even had our sub contractors contact me offering their workers, as they cannot keep them employed much longer.
So before you call myself and others on here F wits!! pull your bloody head in and think yourself bloody lucky that you even have a job >:( there are many workers worse off than you!
Well done again to Qantas to standing up to those who are holding them and the country to ransom, there should be more of it :cup:
bubba :cheers:
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Morag here- here is my two cents worth - I see the problem in a different way - I think big business has actually lost touch with their workers and visa versa- I remember years ago watching a documentary on a very successful Japanese industry where there was only one canteen- bosses ate with the workers. Bosses regularly worked on the factory floor and they all worked as a team - recognising that without one there would be no company. I think big business has lost its way- a them and us mentality. Fat cats come and go they get paid incredible amounts of money no matter if their company makes a profit or not and when they go they get paid an obscene payout figure. The world faces corporate greed and we have lost the belief that everyone in a company matters -
Was listening to ABC radio this morning and guys ringing in saying how they had worked for Qantas for 24 years and they are shocked they are going to be locked out. I felt for him.
I cannot see that a $2 million pay rise will help the situation any no matter who voted it in - It is a disgrace
I can only see this as a nail in the coffin for Qantas - Annset didn't survive - Another great Aussie company will be gone - We will become a country with no Aussie owned industry - companies-
i dint have an answer -
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I to cant believe the un Australian attitude of some of these posts.Its every worker in this great countries right to fight for better pay and conditions.And I cant believe the bullying tactics of the QANTAS board are being applauded by some of you people.I dont claim to know the ins and outs of this debacle but if you dont like the fact that we as Australian workers have this right,maybe you should pack up your campers and move to NTH KOREA.
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I to cant believe the un Australian attitude of some of these posts.Its every worker in this great countries right to fight for better pay and conditions.And I cant believe the bullying tactics of the QANTAS board are being applauded by some of you people.I dont claim to know the ins and outs of this debacle but if you dont like the fact that we as Australian workers have this right,maybe you should pack up your campers and move to NTH KOREA.
Of course the unions were not doing any bullying???
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Of course the unions were not doing any bullying???
Yup, the unions need a kleenex now the shoe is on the other foot. Through the actions of the union they have impacted probably 4-5 times the number of QF workers if you include all the service industries like catering, cleaning etc. But it is ok the union reps still get paid.
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I to cant believe the un Australian attitude of some of these posts.Its every worker in this great countries right to fight for better pay and conditions.And I cant believe the bullying tactics of the QANTAS board are being applauded by some of you people.I dont claim to know the ins and outs of this debacle but if you dont like the fact that we as Australian workers have this right,maybe you should pack up your campers and move to NTH KOREA.
Yes every worker has a right to fight for better pay, but better pay than who and what ??? Qantas workers are already the highest paid airline workers in Australia, where does it end ??? The workers at our company are all paid well above award rates and some still think they are hard done by ??? if you don't like your employment conditions, go and get another job!!
Any Australian company has an equal right to its employees to take industrial action and why shouldn't they ???
High Australian wages is what causes business to go offshore and that is the reality >:D What is the point of high wages if the company can no longer compete in the market place ???
Lets not forget that Qantas was willing to negotiate, it is the unions that were staying steadfast in their demands >:(
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Congratulations, in chasing a 3% wage increase you, your fellow workers and your unions have placed your job of 27 years in jeopardy along with the future of one of Australia's great company's, (you wouldn't still be there if they weren't good to work for)
The SA civil construction industry which I have worked in for over 20 years is currently experiencing it's toughest time in at least those last 20 years, new land development has all but stopped, the only projects our great SA Government >:D releases (many have been put on the back burner again) are packaged in such a way that nearly all local company's cannot compete with the very large national company's who also have less taxes than the SA companies and while the big company's are here they tender for the smaller contracts also. SA company's are going into receivership, workers have no or very little work, workers are going interstate or the mining industry to seek work (and don't come back) when Olympic Dam expands they will take allot more workers from the civil industry and company's like the one I work for, who have invested massive amounts of time and money to upskill their workers so that we can remain competitive. Whilst the Government is just watching it happen >:(
Our Group of company's also invest in land developments, we have commenced work on one of these projects (even though the land is not selling at present) in an attempt to retain as many of our workers as possible, in the hope that work will pick up soon. Other company's do not have this luxury and have lost or put off it's workers, I have even had our sub contractors contact me offering their workers, as they cannot keep them employed much longer.
So before you call myself and others on here F wits!! pull your bloody head in and think yourself bloody lucky that you even have a job >:( there are many workers worse off than you!
Well done again to Qantas to standing up to those who are holding them and the country to ransom, there should be more of it :cup:
bubba :cheers:
Listening to all this Union bashing, Unions this...Unions do that....
Look who is on the Qantas Board...google it...Cosgrove....Yes, that's it, the ex General Gosgrove.
He being a board member has allowed this executive bastardisation to happen.
If he stands by his principles, fairness, co operation and man of the people as such....resign from the board.
The media speaks of the wages to Joyce getting the OK from share holders.....Wrong... the mums and dad share holders said No..
The institution holders (The big end of town...who had the mussle) had the votes to out vote the mums and dads, then pass the executive pay increases.
4 years ago...Alco wanted to buy Qantas...if that happened Qantas would be gone now..Alco went belly up and Qantas lived.
Well fk me.....
Who pulled the pin on the whole show...Joyce...he made the decision to strand people....not the unions...they have called off 3 meetings in the last 2 weeks.
He was a dickhead at Ansett, cockhead at Air Lingus and is driving Qantas into the ground here....he has the body of a 737 and an ego of a A380 and the brains of a morris mini....a fked mini at that!.
Unions are everywhere in societies...cleaners, doctors, ambos, police, why...because unions are the collection of people, who band together to protect their workers rights and living conditions.
So when people start attacking unions...you are attacking your fellow Australians.
I just can't believe some of the redneck comments made against the many people,some of whom I can say are my friends, who day in day out, in all weather under massive amounts of stress, make the flying Kangaroo fly...
I'm leaving his forum....
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I'm leaving his forum....
That's pretty drastic action...
What Joyce has said is if the unions terminate all their industrial action he'll get QF back in the air. The ball is in the unions court.
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Virgin are probably painting kangaroo's on there planes right now.
The buck stops right here...........
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How long before other international carriers are affected if staff are locked out, Qantas ground staff engineers etc do most of the work for the other airlines, bagage handling, fuelling, maintance etc., British Airways has a large stake in Qantas so will they join in, or come to the party and get the travellers left stranded to their destination.
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Listening to all this Union bashing, Unions this...Unions do that....
Unions are everywhere in societies...cleaners, doctors, ambos, police, why...because unions are the collection of people, who band together to protect their workers rights and living conditions.
So when people start attacking unions...you are attacking your fellow Australians.
I'm leaving his forum....
I have never seen any union come to protect my or my fellow workers (some of whom were union members) rights and conditions in the last 20 years ??? 10 years ago our lunch room was the ground in the shade of a tree on a 40 degree plus day and that's if there were any trees on site.
We (the workers of that time) negociated directly with the company over many years to get what our workers enjoy now and they still bitch, but they have little knowledge of what we went through to get them what they have now >:(
So screw the unions, they definately have no place in my life >:( >:D
Oh and seeya, good luck finding a forum as good as this one :cup:
bubba :cheers:
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Listening to all this Union bashing, Unions this...Unions do that....
Look who is on the Qantas Board...google it...Cosgrove....Yes, that's it, the ex General Gosgrove.
He being a board member has allowed this executive bastardisation to happen.
If he stands by his principles, fairness, co operation and man of the people as such....resign from the board.
The media speaks of the wages to Joyce getting the OK from share holders.....Wrong... the mums and dad share holders said No..
The institution holders (The big end of town...who had the mussle) had the votes to out vote the mums and dads, then pass the executive pay increases.
4 years ago...Alco wanted to buy Qantas...if that happened Qantas would be gone now..Alco went belly up and Qantas lived.
Well fk me.....
Who pulled the pin on the whole show...Joyce...he made the decision to strand people....not the unions...they have called off 3 meetings in the last 2 weeks.
He was a dickhead at Ansett, cockhead at Air Lingus and is driving Qantas into the ground here....he has the body of a 737 and an ego of a A380 and the brains of a morris mini....a fked mini at that!.
Unions are everywhere in societies...cleaners, doctors, ambos, police, why...because unions are the collection of people, who band together to protect their workers rights and living conditions.
So when people start attacking unions...you are attacking your fellow Australians.
I just can't believe some of the redneck comments made against the many people,some of whom I can say are my friends, who day in day out, in all weather under massive amounts of stress, make the flying Kangaroo fly...
I'm leaving his forum....
Unions are everywhere in societies...cleaners, doctors, ambos, police, why...because unions are the collection of people, who band together to protect their workers rights and living conditions.
And that's the main problem we are seeing. All those service you list seem to think when they need a pay rise they can just walk off the job until they get what they want and I don't see that as right. What about all those small shop owners out there that can't shut down because they want more money. Where's the fair go for local IGA shops when Coles and Co rock up and offer lower prices.
And to leave the forum because every one is having a say is a bit drastic.
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What a nasty thread. Not very myswag-like at all. :-[
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Who pulled the pin on the whole show...Joyce...he made the decision to strand people....not the unions...they have called off 3 meetings in the last 2 weeks.
Yeah the unions called off their strikes at the last minute... after QANTAS had already made arrangements (cancelled/postponed flights etc), so essentially the damage was done.
How do we know it wasn't their tactic to call off their strikes after the damage was done???
What's the point of keeping Aussie jobs if the company they work for goes under due to being uncompetitive? It's better to have a job then not.
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What a nasty thread. Not very myswag-like at all. :-[
Not a DC-DC charger or 6B&S in sight :)
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I think it is time for the mods to lock. This will get nowhere as there is obviously 2 sides to the story and when ever unions, bosses and politics are involved no one seems to win in fact this time it is the travellers who are losing. Just remember we are all travellers just by different means. What would you think if there was a fuel strike & you couldn't go camping!!!! There is no reason on this forum for things to get ugly except for some of us old farts who were made that way. (& maybe some elecy threads)
My $0.02 worth plus GST