MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: noel_w on October 24, 2011, 08:35:37 PM
-
Well going home today from work, stopped at the lights & the motor started coughing & spluttering. Being a Patrol GQ 2.8td I immediately started worrying. Looked out the back & there was white smoke everywhere. Bugger, big bugger even. Temp guage showed up the top near the red so I shut it down. Opened bonnet & there was a spray of oil over the passenger side inner guard, blowback from somewhere I guess. Decided she was not going anywhere. Called RACQ. A bloke pulled up & found out he was a mechanic so we had a discussion. His thoughts were a dropped valve or cracked ring. Mine were how the F&^% will I pay for this. We decided to hit the starter to have a listen & "bang" she no go anymore.
Long story short is that it was trucked to the mechanics & we'll deal with it tomorrow.
What to do, do i put a new rebuilt motor in it or scrap it & look elsewhere? It's a 95 ST with 235,000 on the clock with a 2" lift. Just had the fuel pump rebuilt & new ckutch put in it recently. I sort of like it but can't afford a new one. Maybe remotor it & keep it for another 100K then sell it. Who knows.
Please tell me this is a bad dream.
What would you do with the beast?
-
What would you do with the beast?
Sadly worth nothing as is
Buy a wrecked 4.2 GQ diesel for couple a grand and swap it all over.
or buy another 2.8 from engine reco place
-
It's all just a bad, bad, bad, bad dream!
Bin it and go Toyota ... >:D
Kit_e
-
Sadly worth nothing as is
Buy a wrecked 4.2 GQ diesel for couple a grand and swap it all over.
or buy another 2.8 from engine reco place
X2
-
You could always bin the 2.8 and fit a 3.0lt, then you'd have nothing to worry about................. >:D
-
Depends on what sort of dollars we are talking for another donk. What do they go for?
-
You could always bin the 2.8 and fit a 3.0lt, then you'd have nothing to worry about................. >:D
Between this comment and taunting us with the photos of your trip, You are an evil man. 8) 8) 8) ;D
-
Between this comment and taunting us with the photos of your trip, You are an evil man. 8) 8) 8) ;D
:cheers:
-
Firstly you need to work out exactly what has gone wrong with your motor before stressing too much. It might be major, it might be $500 and you're going again. it could have done a turbo seal which will make them blow more smoke than if it was on fire, if it's done a valve and then damaged a piston then you can start talking $$ to fix.
-
You could always bin the 2.8 and fit a 3.0lt, then you'd have nothing to worry about................. >:D
x2
Even though I have a LC I see the appeal of the Datsuns get it rebuilt or a reconed motor, but be careful which you get as the ZD30 was known as the Grenade Motor for a very good reason... http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-patrol-gu-gr-10/zd30-grenade-warning-signs-45684/ (http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-patrol-gu-gr-10/zd30-grenade-warning-signs-45684/)
Even Toyota had an Achilles heal the 1HD-t (which I have) would cock a leg if the BEB's were not changed after 100,000km's
-
Not good Noel.
I had a 2.8 td GU last year....we didn't get along so I sold it. I began to worry constantly about when and where it would go Bang! even though it had had the head rebuilt and seemed to be quite reliable....I still was unsure about it.
My dear ol Ma has a 92' GQ 4.2TD(silver top) with about 375k on it and it will go forever without a doubt. She's ready to part with it if you are looking for a donor....looking for offers around 8K, its not the prettiest but it has all the right bits. If she'd decided to sell it last year while I had the GU I would have kept it for myself and converted mine, the TD42 is a tuff donk, add a turbo and it will fly.
Cheers, Rod.
-
Well going home today from work, stopped at the lights & the motor started coughing & spluttering. Being a Patrol GQ 2.8td I immediately started worrying. Looked out the back & there was white smoke everywhere. Bugger, big bugger even. Temp guage showed up the top near the red so I shut it down. Opened bonnet & there was a spray of oil over the passenger side inner guard, blowback from somewhere I guess. Decided she was not going anywhere. Called RACQ. A bloke pulled up & found out he was a mechanic so we had a discussion. His thoughts were a dropped valve or cracked ring. Mine were how the F&^% will I pay for this. We decided to hit the starter to have a listen & "bang" she no go anymore.
Long story short is that it was trucked to the mechanics & we'll deal with it tomorrow.
What to do, do i put a new rebuilt motor in it or scrap it & look elsewhere? It's a 95 ST with 235,000 on the clock with a 2" lift. Just had the fuel pump rebuilt & new ckutch put in it recently. I sort of like it but can't afford a new one. Maybe remotor it & keep it for another 100K then sell it. Who knows.
Please tell me this is a bad dream.
What would you do with the beast?
Awh sorry to hear about chitty chitty. There is nothing more sad than seeing your pride & joy on the back of a tow truck.
We had the experience a couple of weeks a go. The new fuel pump that we had replaced a week prior just karcked it. Long story short another new fuel pump all going well. I am very pleased my wonderful husband is a very patient handy person and could fix my patrol ;D ;D ;D Cheers rellbell
-
Whats your budget...
then take it from there...
-
Not good, I know the feeling I was there about 12 months ago with my patrol.
I wont make any suggestions other than to take your time before making any decisions. Think about the next couple of years (you mentioned 100,000 klm), Where you may be and what you might need or want. It may be time for a change, Or you could give the old girl a bit of love and another couple of years (the car that is). It will probably be a head vs heart decision either way.
:cheers:
-
Thanks guys for all your kind words
Just got back from my mates place, he is lending me one of his Falcon spare cars till I get this sorted. (He owned a taxi co. till recently & still has a couple of falcons sitting around)
I'll keep you all posted whether it gets fixed or its on its way.
Regards to all
Noel
-
I also feel your pain mate I had a worry with my 2.8 GU a few months ago but turned out to be not as bad as I thought, hopefully yours is something similar, if your mechanically minded at all maybe a home rebuild is worth a look you can get them at a good price, good luck mate
-
Had my 2.8 slip a timing belt end everything went BANG, full rebuild and she is back in business the dearest part of the whole rebuild was the head.
-
Had my 2.8 slip a timing belt end everything went BANG, full rebuild and she is back in business the dearest part of the whole rebuild was the head.
.
steal burn and claim on insurance
-
.
steal burn and claim on insurance
Na, I like the 2.8 :angel:
-
Pull the head, pull the sump and check the bores. Drop a main cap and a big end bearing cap.
This will give you some idea if its salvageable or not.
You never know how good or bad it is. You may get away with a basic hone, rings, bearings and gasket set and then sell it.
Good luck.
-
steal burn and claim on insurance
The thought had crossed my mind, but undriveable & in the mechanics shop already.....
Oh well. Back to the drawing board.
As for fixing it myself, it is my daily driver so it's going to have to be sooner rather than later plus I have limited tools & space so that is out of the question.
May be a long motor if the prognosis is terminal.
-
.
steal burn and claim on insurance
Funny, thats just what I was thinking >:D
-
Just got back from my mates place, he is lending me one of his Falcon spare cars till I get this sorted
At least the Falcon will be a little better off road. Use this time wisely and get to some places you were never able to with your Patrol..... ;D
-
At least the Falcon will be a little better off road. Use this time wisely and get to some places you were never able to with your Patrol..... ;D
Ha ha classic
-
At least the Falcon will be a little better off road. Use this time wisely and get to some places you were never able to with your Patrol..... ;D
owned :)
sorry to hear about your car but mate
-
At least the Falcon will be a little better off road. Use this time wisely and get to some places you were never able to with your Patrol..... ;D
Quote of the day :cup:
-
I really feel for anyone who has a car go bang and then has the expense and inconvenience of having to fix it. I'm not a mechanic so cant offer too much advice but over the years I have found it cheaper to fix properly and retain what you know rather than selling and possibly buying more problems.
Two trains of thought worry me and I hope that Myswag members say these things with tongue in cheek
1. Fix it cheaply and sell it - what so some unsuspecting off roader or member can buy the problems and so we see the next thread about how someone got ripped off and we all sympathize with them?
2. Burn it and claim insurance - so we can all pay higher premiums for someone else's fraud.
Good luck with your repairs.
-
1. Fix it cheaply and sell it - what so some unsuspecting off roader or member can buy the problems and so we see the next thread about how someone got ripped off and we all sympathize with them?
HI Hewy
I hope I wasnt suggesting fixing it cheaply as in bodgying it up. What I meant was if you are not going to keep it then do the bare minimum required so its fixed. You can either fix whats wrong or do the lot.
If you are going to keep it long term, and because it got hot, then you would want to strip it completely, magnaflux the crank and conrods, grind the crank undersize, grind the conrod caps then resize the rod ends, remove the pistons from the rods and replace the pistons with oversize ones , new rings, deck the block, bore oversize, all new seals. Reassemble.
Pressure test head, strip, replace valve stems, replace valves, triple cut valve seats and reassemble. Adjust valves.
Reassemble engine and refit to patrol.
This would probably eat up close to 8K at least.
At some stage you need to work out where the value is.
cheers
-
Thanks Hewy and all those who wished me well. My comment on burning it was tongue in cheek, there is no way I could do that to a Patrol even if it is the pre-runner to the Grenade series.
Yes there are places I would take a Falcon to I wouldn't take a Patrol. TO THE WRECKERS. This old beast has given me many pleasures over the years and has been over some country in it's unmodified form that some people would not take their lifted & locked fancy cruisers in case they scratch it. And for a lot less money in purchase price and fuel !!!!!! Its horses for coarses and some people can't afford a whole lot but enjoy what they have. It may not be much but I do own it.
Latest update from the mechanic is a cracked head, at this stage the flat bit downwards might be salvageable but won't know until the head comes off. I'll most likely find out tomorrow.
-
At least the Falcon will be a little better off road. Use this time wisely and get to some places you were never able to with your Patrol..... ;D
No, this isnt photoshopped.............
-
The thought had crossed my mind, but undriveable & in the mechanics shop already.....
Oh well. Back to the drawing board.
As for fixing it myself, it is my daily driver so it's going to have to be sooner rather than later plus I have limited tools & space so that is out of the question.
May be a long motor if the prognosis is terminal.
If it turns out to be a stuffed motor give The Engine Exchange in Bayswater WA a call a couple of years ago they took over another company that had a large amount of Diesel Japanese Runners you may be lucky and they may have one in stock at a good price also another thought is Brunswick Diesels just out of Bunbury they do plenty of V8 diesel conversions from Patrols and they are bound to have a few of these motors lying around and there is also the 3rd suggestion is the work shop covered by insurance ????
-
If you repair it "cheaply" you can't sell it on this forum as everyone will know about it.
-
I feel for you noel - I hope you can get it sorted quickly.
My theory in this situation is :
A) it's worth nothing as-is, so you may as well fix it, and
B) once fixed, you've got to get your value back, so you may as well keep it for as long as you can.
Personally, I'd be looking at a reco motor. I wouldn't muck around with fixing your current one, especially if you can't DIY. Every dollar you spend on pulling the current motor apart and inspecting the damage is money you don't have to actually fix. If it did get hot, then I don't believe they're ever really the same afterwards. Personally, I'd pull the current 2.8 and swap a "new" one straight in.
Cheapest and quickest is to pull 2.8 out and put 2.8 back. If you want to upside, you can pull 2.8 and put 4.2 back, but then you're going to need to do a lot more work, and spend a lot more coin. Which means that you'll need to keep it even longer to get your return on that investment. If that sounds like a good idea to you though, then go for it.
If you can DIY then the above changes, so long as you value your time at $0.hr. You can pull it apart yourself and replace what's wrong, and get it back together in a better state for less money. But if it is your daily, the need to get it back ASAP might be your overarching concern.
Good luck - it's not the best place to find yourself!
Matto :)
-
If you repair it "cheaply" you can't sell it on this forum as everyone will know about it.
thats what Gumtree is for :D
-
My view, from the perspective of someone who has gone the route of mods to the vehicle but has no skills / few tools less space and no time, has always been 'better the devil you know'.
With my motor about to turn over 300,000km I have already decided that, at some stage, I'll fit a change over.
This approach allows me to justify further mods (eg rear diff and gearbox) that would be uneconomical if I was intending to get rid of the car.
Also, from what I see newer vehicles are getting more and more complicated, less able to be modified, and generally less suited to what we want to do with them.
So, if you like the Patrol and it will suit your needs for a few more years, I can't see why you wouldn't put the $ you have into a replacement engine - inevitably cheaper than a rerplacement vehicle - and keep on getting enjoyment from a vehicle that you know and like.
-
My theory in this situation is :
A) it's worth nothing as-is, so you may as well fix it, and
B) once fixed, you've got to get your value back, so you may as well keep it for as long as you can.
Personally, I'd be looking at a reco motor. I wouldn't muck around with fixing your current one, especially if you can't DIY. Every dollar you spend on pulling the current motor apart and inspecting the damage is money you don't have to actually fix. If it did get hot, then I don't believe they're ever really the same afterwards. Personally, I'd pull the current 2.8 and swap a "new" one straight in.
Cheapest and quickest is to pull 2.8 out and put 2.8 back
Thanks Matto
That is the current plan that SWMBO and I nutted out last night. Mechanic is pulling the head for no charge today to suss out damage and we go from there. Long term plan is to be a keeper for a couple of years at least, that way I can still go camping. Only other option was to buy someone else's problem which I am not keen on unless it is a good one, which I would not be able to afford.
Basically the old girl is in pretty good nick only needing a few replacement bits & bobs here & there due to age & K's. It tows the Trackie well & is quite economical doing it (12.5L/100K) so I have no qualms about keeping it for a while if I put in a good donk. I also have a 16yo son who may inherit it as he is mad keen on hotted up rice burners & I'm trying to steer him to 4bying rather than being a cop magnet. If he gets this for free it may encourage him to slow down when he hits the road. (edit: force rather than encourage as the 2.8 is no speed machine)
Might have to be snags on the bbq plate rather than a roast in the camp oven for a while though. (And heaven forbid a few less beers maybe)
thats what Gumtree is for
Hey Lost, Thats where I got my Trackabout from, it's not all bad.
My view, from the perspective of someone who has gone the route of mods to the vehicle but has no skills / few tools less space and no time, has always been 'better the devil you know'.
With my motor about to turn over 300,000km I have already decided that, at some stage, I'll fit a change over.
This approach allows me to justify further mods (eg rear diff and gearbox) that would be uneconomical if I was intending to get rid of the car.
Also, from what I see newer vehicles are getting more and more complicated, less able to be modified, and generally less suited to what we want to do with them.
So, if you like the Patrol and it will suit your needs for a few more years, I can't see why you wouldn't put the $ you have into a replacement engine - inevitably cheaper than a rerplacement vehicle - and keep on getting enjoyment from a vehicle that you know and like.
Very valid points and totally agree
-
Good on you Noel,
We were all set for the replacement of our 80 last year when we snapped the shaft on the turbo (actually what I think has happened to yours). I have put a new turbo on it, a new set of injectors and rebuilt the fuel pump. All up the cost was about $7,500.00. We were fortunate enough that the turbo did not disintigrate and go through the motor. That would have meant pistons and possibly head.
What does this mean. Nothing really other than I am still driving the 80 until I can afford to upgrade. I am happy with the quality of repair, that it will still be reliable.
We had to budget back a bit as we all need to from time to time but we will get there in the end as I am sure you will too. Good luck with your repairs and I hope it all goes well for you.
-
Hi Noel,
Good luck with it all - it's a horrible feeling when something like that happens out of the blue. I had borrowed my father-in-law's dual cab Courier one day and it dropped it's bundle in a big way, blowing the bottom end apart. It's not a nice feeling at all. The worse feeling was 2 months later, following the Courier on our first big trip away with the new donk, when it looked like it had done it again ;D. Thankfully only a not-properly-attached turbo hose that time 8). It did make a LOT of smoke though!
A mate of mine down south has a 2.8GU, and he loves it. Those 2.8 motors might not be fast, but they're smooth. Sounds like you've got a good setup between the GQ and the trackie, so I wouldn't be changing much.
as he is mad keen on hotted up rice burners
Don't despair too much - I went through that phase as well ;D. At that stage, the last thing I would have been interested in was a big, old, slow 4WD. Looking back, it would have been perfect for me, but alas, hindsight is always perfect, isn't it? You're right about those cars being cop magnets though - even mine, which was relatively low-key, still drew more attention than I would have liked.
Again, good luck with it. Sounds like your mech is looking after you.
Matto :)
-
Don't despair too much - I went through that phase as well . At that stage, the last thing I would have been interested in was a big, old, slow 4WD. Looking back, it would have been perfect for me, but alas, hindsight is always perfect, isn't it? You're right about those cars being cop magnets though - even mine, which was relatively low-key, still drew more attention than I would have liked.
Me too, I had a (new) Datto 180B sleeper when I was just out of school. Only external hint was mags & good rubber & a very low key note from the extractors. Under the hood was a different story with dual DCOE45 Webers & sweetened head. Good for 8K RPM. Used to go out hunting V8's for kicks. As you said hindsight is a wonderful thing, I don't want to hand down my bad habits from when I was a kid.
-
You could also look at putting a rb25det motor in.
Petrol Skyline motor.
Power is equal to how much you spend. Off the shelf parts are available to go as far as you want.
Any decent tune shop can work on them.
Bolts up to your engine mounts and gearbox.
Gets rid of the duel mass clutch.
Very smooth motor.
Cheap to buy, ie throw away donk.
Most of your wiring harness will be used.
No worries with compliance cause its a same or less capacity engine.
The RB25 has about the same torque as the RD28 and twice the power
If your worried about lack of low down grunt in low range a set of Marks 43% gears or 85s will fix it and be unstoppable.
If I were to buy another Patrol I would be buying one in your situation and doing this.
It would take longer but hey, will go like stink .
Some light reading for you :D
http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-patrol-gu-gr-10/gu-2-8-rb25det-conversion-42972/ (http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/nissan-patrol-gu-gr-10/gu-2-8-rb25det-conversion-42972/)
-
That's a good point BlackMav. Harb had (probably still has) a black GQ with the 3L Skyline motor in it. I'm led to believe it goes like a cut snake. As for the low-down torque, a bit more boost will fix that.
http://www.4wdaction.com.au/articles/0/576-black-magic
There's more info on it in the 4WDA forums somewhere.
I reckon THAT would be a lot of fun on a gravel road.
(almost as much fun as noel's 180b!)
Thanks!
Matto :)
-
Matto, the RB30 is a bit of a different beast to these. Only single cam, old school V.L turbo donk. Great motors but these have much more scope for fuel economy or power upgrades. I am also not sure about putting an older type/numbered motor in a newer car.
RB30 GQ patrols with the turbo are a great thing :D
The conversion wouldn't be for everyone , but everyone would want to have a go in it:D
-
I reckon THAT would be a lot of fun on a gravel road.
(almost as much fun as noel's 180b!)
I seem to remember hitting 125 mph on the dirt once in the "B". Used to alway wish for another gear, 4 just wasn't enough. Brake fade used to let it down though. Love the smell of brake pads burning.
-
You could also look at putting a rb25det motor in.
Petrol Skyline motor.
A mate did this to his RB30 powered GQ....went from Ho-Hum to Whoa-Muthar!
It was an absolute animal when right foot floored and the boost came on yet it could also doodle around town like a shopping trolley no worries. Fuel economy was only slightly worse than my 2.8TD GU but his was a whole postcode faster...I considered doing the swap for mine but didn't make sense for longer term touring.
-
No, this isnt photoshopped.............
Reminds me of listening to two blokes chatting at Harry's Hut about how good the track in was for their new 4WDs. We were walking on the same track and they were bragging away until they rounded the corner and saw our stock EL Falcon wagon parked next to their new 4wds. Sometimes it best not to say anything. ;D ;D
-
Good on you Noel,
All up the cost was about $7,500.00.
Is that a typo ??
-
Is that a typo ??
Nope,,,,
injector pump was 3.5k injectors 1K and turbo 3K. Gaskets, oils and other sundries. it is the 1hdt motor direct injection. Normal cost for pump for that engine is up over 4K
-
Nope,,,,
injector pump was 3.5k injectors 1K and turbo 3K. Gaskets, oils and other sundries. it is the 1hdt motor direct injection. Normal cost for pump for that engine is up over 4K
yea thats sorta the prices I was expecting.
its funny, they recommend injectors every 100k klms, and pump every 2 injector sets... whose that rich!?
-
Turns out it was a leaky head gasket in no. 6 pot. Minute amounts of coolant slowly leaking in over some time & turned piston oval shaped. Diagnosis terminal, mechanic looking for reco motor as we speak. Hey Mr. bank manager how the $%&^ are ya, how they hangin'. We need to have a chat. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
-
yea thats sorta the prices I was expecting.
its funny, they recommend injectors every 100k klms, and pump every 2 injector sets... whose that rich!?
The 1 HZ is heaps cheaper at about $80 per injector and a pump recalibration is around the $650.
Mine is going back though it has a flat spot in it now and is sooting in the flat spot rev range so something isn't right. From experience that can lead to engine failure. (holes in pistons) My hilux did it twice before they figured it out.
-
Turns out it was a leaky head gasket in no. 6 pot. Minute amounts of coolant slowly leaking in over some time & turned piston oval shaped. Diagnosis terminal, mechanic looking for reco motor as we speak. Hey Mr. bank manager how the $%&^ are ya, how they hangin'. We need to have a chat. :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'( :'(
Sad news there Noel. Say hi to the bank manager for me. I had the same dealings with him last year.
-
Damn :(
http://www.qldmotorrecyclers.com.au/Page/engines
http://www.brisbanemotorimports.com.au/engines/diesel-engines/nissan/rd28
PATROL GQ RD28 ENGINE
Product Code: NIS-ED-RD28
Type: PATROL GQ RD28 ENGINE
Model: Patrol replaces RD28T
CC: 2825cc
Year: 95-97
Description: Nissan Engine
Price: $3,650.00
if your going into debt, take the opportunity :( but not everyone can...
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Nissan-Patrol-GU-ST-2000-INTERCOOLED-DIESEL-2-8-ltr-manual-/270835144431?pt=AU_Cars&hash=item3f0f0856ef
-
Damn
Thanks Lost
I'm staying clear of 2nd hand imports, there seems to be (excuse the pun) a flood of them since the Tsunami and there doesn't seem to be much price difference anyway between them and a reco. That BMI link you supplied, I have already quizzed them, it's a non turbo engine & a fair bit of difference apparently to update to turbo which defeats the purpose. I'd hate to drive a normally aspirated 2.8 GQ, the turbo one is slow enough. They have my motor RD28TD for $5500 http://www.brisbanemotorimports.com.au/engines/diesel-engines/nissan/rd28-t (http://www.brisbanemotorimports.com.au/engines/diesel-engines/nissan/rd28-t) which is the same price for a reco motor. Why buy a 2nd hand motor, history unknown, for the same price as a reco. Thanks for lookin for me though. My browser history will probably fill my hdd soon after this little effort.
A GU would be nice but if I do that it would have to be a 4.2D.
-
Why buy a 2nd hand motor, history unknown, for the same price as a reco.
couldnt agree more.
A GU would be nice but if I do that it would have to be a 4.2D.
couldnt agree more... or a duramax ;)
-
Reminds me of listening to two blokes chatting at Harry's Hut about how good the track in was for their new 4WDs. We were walking on the same track and they were bragging away until they rounded the corner and saw our stock EL Falcon wagon parked next to their new 4wds. Sometimes it best not to say anything. ;D ;D
Remember having this EXACT effect on a bloke heading down to Talbotville from Grant over 21 years ago, as me anb my BIL were heading back from Talbotville in my beat up 1967 VW Beetle! Still can ROFL thinking about it. HA!
-
OK guys, an update.
Mechanic has sourced a reco motor in Mexico City, apperently they are a sought after item - have no idea why :laugh: :laugh:. Can't get it up to God's Own Country till Thursday next week as apparently there is a half-assed donkey race down there soon. One day Public Holiday & the place shuts for a week go figure.
Another few days after that & it should be fitted. Can't wait to have my baby back again.
-
Mechanic has sourced a reco motor in Mexico City, apperently they are a sought after item
is that sarcasm? ;)
Good to see it wont be off road for too long
-
is that sarcasm?
Glad you recognised it!!!
-
Glad you recognised it!!!
I missed this
(http://www.leadslingersgaming.com/forums/style_emoticons/default/sarcasm.gif)
-
Hi mate
interesting that it's No 6.
I'm not sure with the diesels but in the 1980's I made a lot of money on 4 & 6 cyl nissans (the SOHC L6 & L4 motors) doing their head gaskets at around 60-80k
cause of the problem? dealers were not re-tensioning the head at the 1st service. over time that small coolant leak ate the gasket and surrounding metal.
Has a bit to do with how the coolant circulates and where the hottest parts of the motor are
-
over time that small coolant leak ate the gasket and surrounding metal
Sounds like the exact same problem.
-
Sounds like the exact same problem.
How does coolant eat the gasket and surrounding metal? Is coolant slightly corrosive???
-
Probably a case of dissimilar metals (alloy head and cast iron block? & head gasket ???) and the coolant is acting as a conduit for electolysis. My guess, a question for the scientists out there.
-
It would be a lack of coolant causing corrosion. Coolant is generally a corrosion inhibitor.
-
Guys..
what I meant was, coolant is fine when it's just coolant, but where there's a head gasket leak that is where contaminants gets mixed in - anything such as combustion blow by, oils etc. This causes an acidic reaction between that, the coolant and the alloy and the gasket starts to disappear and the cylinder head metal becomes pitted (which is my old school expression of the leak eating the head), it just gets down hill & worse.
Even some coolants don't mix eg: Toyota (red) coolant and regular (green) coolant together becomes mega corosive, that can wreck a head gasket or radiator and worse.
I don't know if it's a known problem with the 2.8 but cars that have a known head tension problem like the older dattos and later Saab Turbos (same boat) it pays to check the tension of the head bolts at major services.
Re-tensioning head bolts is only a no-no with engines that have the head bolt threads that go all the way into the water jackets, old holden red & blue motors, stuff from that vintage.
off topic - Even had a later engine, commodore ecotec V6 that had to have stud sealant on the water pump bolts, next time you look at a commi V6 that's had a new water pump and often you will see a little stain coming out between one of the bolts and the pump body. Yep you get inside one of those and it's very old school, even the bolts are UNC not metric.
-
example of what I meant about the commodore water pump. just for any one interested
hey Noel, be sure to plonk in a new thermostat, and water pump and maybe new silicone in the fan hub. Oh and don't forget flush the old coolant out of the heater core
-
Mallory i dont want to pick what you said, But from experience no coolants mix. It cost me a head in my patrol ZD30. A mechanic replaced the radiator, Drained my coolant (Castrol), Refilled the new radiator with my coolant then topped it up with whatever they had.Within 2000 klms the radiator was 70% blocked and the car was overheating under load. Their first response was that it was probably a fuel problem and needs the pump rebuilt at a cost of about $3k, Then they ran like hell when I turned up with the cracked head. The reaction caused a chalky residue, Of which I have a sample here somewhere.
-
some coolants can mix but yes it's a lottery. Some coolants should only be used for a specific engine type because it's been formulated to protect the metals that you find in that engine
My radiator guy has an inhibitor that neutralises incompatible coolants but it's just an inhibitor, it has no anti-freeze characteristics
anyway, back to the GU
so how goes it Noel?
-
Waiting on delivery of the replacement reco motor. Decided to bite the bullet and keep the old girl as there isn't much around to replace it that doesn't cost a bomb. Might be slow & noisy but I like her.
Looks like it might be a couple of weeks before I get her back, until then I have to crawl down into the Falcon - not good for the old knees & back.
-
New motor arrived at the mechanics today, saw it in the flesh this morning.
Can't wait to get the old girl going again.
-
New motor arrived at the mechanics today, saw it in the flesh this morning.
Can't wait to get the old girl going again.
After past experience, that's the way I would have gone too.
In Canada we had a VW camper that had engine trouble - I took it to the local (recommended, non-dealer, German) VW mechanic and asked him to source a reco for it ... "Nah! I'll pull it apart and just get the bits you need" ... bill at the end (months later): C$3,500 (decent recos were available for around US$1,200 at the time).
-
Being in the engine rebuilding game for many years make sure you get the fuel system and cooling system serviced with documented proof it was done as well as looking at replacing clutch / or transmission service as if any problems you will find there will be warranty void if not done.
-
ditto that
-
Thanks guys
I'll bring that up with the mechanic. He has already mentioned he has to do certain things to validate the warranty.
The Fuel pump was reconditioned about 10K ago, new clutch about 5K ago so guessing they will be OK if I show him receipts etc.
-
OK, got the old girl back again today. First impression is there isn't the grunt the old one had. Still running in though so I guess wait & see. It's a hell of a lot quieter though which is a gain I guess. Sure is nice to be able to see the road again after driving a foulcan for a couple of weeks.
-
OK, got the old girl back again today. First impression is there isn't the grunt the old one had. Still running in though so I guess wait & see. It's a hell of a lot quieter though which is a gain I guess. Sure is nice to be able to see the road again after driving a foulcan for a couple of weeks.
its a new motor?
what else was replaced at the same time?
-
Yep a reco motor. Replaced all belts, hoses, got the radiator done, new injectors, fuel pipes to the injectors cleaned & checked, turbo seals (arf arf) & checked over by turbo shop, couple of other bit's & bobs. Complete flush of the coolant system etc etc.
Clutch was new not long ago & Fuel pump was reco'd not long ago as well.
-
Its always nice to have an old friend back ;D
-
Yep a reco motor. Replaced all belts, hoses, got the radiator done, new injectors, fuel pipes to the injectors cleaned & checked, turbo seals (arf arf) & checked over by turbo shop, couple of other bit's & bobs. Complete flush of the coolant system etc etc.
Clutch was new not long ago & Fuel pump was reco'd not long ago as well.
Nice work..
what was the total damage in the end??
should be ready for another 10 yrs now!
-
Its always nice to have an old friend back
Sure is Speewa, I was genuinely missing it
Hi Lost
So far I am very happy with the workmanship and professionalism of the fixit shop. To be honest he quoted me between 7.5 & 8 give or take, notwithstanding things along the way they found. Final price was ~8.5 but a new set of injectors was called for which he did not quote for and told me that before he started work on the beast. I knew that the injectors would need to be renewed and I was correct. (Just testin') The two injectors 5 & 6 were buggered due to the coolant seepage and I was going to renew them all in about a months time anyway (before the bang). Was just sweetening up the minister for war & finance for that little jobbie.
There were a couple of things they didn't charge me for as he said that would have upped the price beyond what he thought was fair to both of us. Whether that was a furphy or not who knows.
Some will say I may have been ripped off as my mates cousin's wife's bro in the shed down the road would have done it for $1K less. I don't care as I now have my truck back and if this motor lasts as long as the last it may well outlive me. SWMBO told me that we need to keep it for a few years now to recoup costs a bit. Sweet mercies sometimes eh! Bugger, I've gotta keep my fourbie. :cup: What a shame.
The first service is not charged for which includes a tighten up, change of oil & coolant.
Time to hit the road Jack. Scenic Rim have a comp on next weekend, might just have to spectate. :cheers: :cheers:
Thanks to all who gave their commiserations, was much appreciated.
-
I don't care as I now have my truck back
Thats pretty much all you need to say... :)
now get out and enjoy it!
-
Hi noel_w,
I have been reading this post and watching you progress, 8.5 k is not a bad deal for what you have got. Don't be shy to feed it the fat, if you run that motor in while you are driving miss daisy around, it will forever more be a lazy motor. I don't mean that you flog the bloody thing, just drive it like you have always done so. Diesels are different to petrol motors in the running in process. Hope that all is well for you and yours in the future, enjoy what you have.
Cheers duggie
-
Guys..
what I meant was, coolant is fine when it's just coolant, but where there's a head gasket leak that is where contaminants gets mixed in - anything such as combustion blow by, oils etc. This causes an acidic reaction between that, the coolant and the alloy and the gasket starts to disappear and the cylinder head metal becomes pitted (which is my old school expression of the leak eating the head), it just gets down hill & worse.
Even some coolants don't mix eg: Toyota (red) coolant and regular (green) coolant together becomes mega corosive, that can wreck a head gasket or radiator and worse.
I don't know if it's a known problem with the 2.8 but cars that have a known head tension problem like the older dattos and later Saab Turbos (same boat) it pays to check the tension of the head bolts at major services.
Re-tensioning head bolts is only a no-no with engines that have the head bolt threads that go all the way into the water jackets, old holden red & blue motors, stuff from that vintage.
Mallory, you are DEAD RIGHT, go to the top of the class mate. Well done.
After forking out $4,000 to replace the head on my 2.8 TD just recently. Turns out the culprit was exactly as you've stated, however the plot thickens.
It appears the alloy used by Nissan in our engines is of lesser quality then the stuff used in earlier engines and requires a much stronger anti corrosive inhibitor, ie; the RED STUFF. 50/50.
Anything else and corrosion will occur causing all sorts of miserble breakdowns and costly repairs.
In my case, the corrosion began as stated via the cooling holes in the head gasket, the gasket was compromised by the corrosion, actually lifted in places despite the head being on top, allowing water egress into cylinder, compression then escaped into coolant system, blowing out all coolant over heating engine, then cracking head.
I had all six exahust valves also damaged by severe corrosion and the guides had dropped caused by the overheating, then the valves hit the bottom of the guides. Need I say it, quiet a mess.
So all you Patrol owners out there, irrespective whether it's a 4.2 petrol or diesel, or our humble 2.8 or the hand grendade 3 litre, ensure the proper coolant in your water systems and maintain it religiously if you wish to avoid costly repairs.
Ref the head bolt question, I know Nissan and any reputable head specialist shop will tell you, remove the head, then all head bolts must be BINNED, and new ones used, apparently they STRETCH and thus cannot be reused, nor can they be "re-tensioned".
-
Sure is Speewa, I was genuinely missing it
Hi Lost
So far I am very happy with the workmanship and professionalism of the fixit shop. To be honest he quoted me between 7.5 & 8 give or take, notwithstanding things along the way they found. Final price was ~8.5 but a new set of injectors was called for which he did not quote for and told me that before he started work on the beast. I knew that the injectors would need to be renewed and I was correct. (Just testin') The two injectors 5 & 6 were buggered due to the coolant seepage and I was going to renew them all in about a months time anyway (before the bang). Was just sweetening up the minister for war & finance for that little jobbie.
There were a couple of things they didn't charge me for as he said that would have upped the price beyond what he thought was fair to both of us. Whether that was a furphy or not who knows.
Some will say I may have been ripped off as my mates cousin's wife's bro in the shed down the road would have done it for $1K less. I don't care as I now have my truck back and if this motor lasts as long as the last it may well outlive me. SWMBO told me that we need to keep it for a few years now to recoup costs a bit. Sweet mercies sometimes eh! Bugger, I've gotta keep my fourbie. :cup: What a shame.
The first service is not charged for which includes a tighten up, change of oil & coolant.
Time to hit the road Jack. Scenic Rim have a comp on next weekend, might just have to spectate. :cheers: :cheers:
Thanks to all who gave their commiserations, was much appreciated.
Noel, do yourself a BIG favour and check the inhibitor in your coolant system, if it's NOT RED, you WILL have corrosion problems within 10.,000 K's again.
Talk to your mechanic and get it changed out pronto.
Been there, done that.
-
Well guys, I have put off posting about my problem with the new motor in case it was just my very vivid imagination but here goes.
As you know if you have followed this thread my trusty 2.8td died and it was decided to go for a reco. All went well except for occasionally it would smoke & missfire on startup until it got warm. As things do, it would not happen when I took it to the mechanic even leaving it there overnight. To be fair he has been good about this and has gone to all lengths to fix it but the issue would not happen when it was in the shop.
All along I have had this suspicion that the fault was not glow plug or IP related as the old motor did not do this and most parts were renewed or swapped from the old motor. A couple of times when I had it back to them, one of the injector pipes was seeping fuel around the injector and this was thought to be the problem with air leaking in or an air lock in the lines. Their other thought was the glow plugs were not working efficiently but I countered that by saying if the glow plugs weren’t working then it would not start smoothly or take heaps of cranking to get it going. It always starts first kick of the starter every time and starts smoothly, getting rougher & smokier as the glow plugs stopped glowing.
Long story short he has admitted it was past his expertise and handed it off to a diesel specialist. They did some tests and decided it was the glow plug controller and swapped it for an aftermarket one. They handed it back to my mechanic who tested for a couple of days with no issues so i got it back last Friday with the comment "All fixed"
Saturday morning I started it up and the whole front yard was filled with smoke & I thought the donk would rattle off the engine mounts. Not happy Jan. Also the tacho now doesn't work as the wiring for it goes through the Glow Control unit & wasn't wired back in.
After a "discussion" with the mechanic he came by my place this morning to see if the problem would manifest itself before his very eyes. (I was s&%t scared it would work perfectly) Low and behold when I started it the exhaust was relatively clear until the glow plugs stopped cycling then it filled the street with smoke. He had his iphone filming it all the time. At long last he could see my problem. Now it is back to them again. I’m booked in to go camping on the 11th of feb so I’m hoping it is fixed before then or he will have to spring for a hire vehicle that has trailer brakes.
I’m thinking I should have bailed on it when it went bang initially.
Thanks for reading guys, I just had to vent.
P.S. I think I will get my forum name changed to "The Bandit" as I now live with "Smokey"
-
I’m thinking I should have bailed on it when it went bang initially.
Maybe yes and no..
Maybe yes, lot of $ to throw at it, but not everyone can afford a new $30-60,000 car
No cause in reality the $ you have spent on it you should be back to sq 1 and another 300,000 klms ahead of it...
We were talkin about this at Tom Groggin on weekend about Spannermen, its hard to find a good one these days....
Good luck.
-
Thanks Lost
Yep you are right, another new car was out of the question at the time (& still is) so it would have been a case of buying something which may have had more problems than this one, at least I know most of the problems with the GQ and when it's going it's a formidable beast. I had a good mechanic once but he left the trade & went to uni & graduated 6.9 GPA in software engineering. Now works for Defence Signals in Canberra but won't telll me what he does as he would have to kill me!!!!
I now have to wait & see what they come up with as a fix once they can find the problem.
-
Gee Noel,
that's a shame. I spent my mechanic-ing days in general servicing and working on (petrol) EFI. so I'm not a diesel specialist
All I can think of is has anyone worked out if the startup smoke is from fuel or engine oil.
Once that's determined a big part of the guesswork is taken away and you can work it out better.
ie if it's oil the usual culprits are valve stem seals, maybe the turbo inlet seal, anything that would cause oil to seep and pool in either the inlet tract or back of the inlet valves after shutdown to be burnt on the next startup
*If it's valve stem seals the smoke comes out fairly quickly
*If the oil is sitting further upstream it takes more time to start burning
*Because this is a different motor, might sound dumb, but is the right dipstick in there so the correct oil level inside measures properly
Like I mentioned, not an expert on diesels but I'm pretty sure that someone experienced can tell the difference on sight and smell between burning engine oil and poor combustion of diesel
What else...
Are all the electrial connectors and especially the earth wires hooked up and making good contact?
White burning of the fuel can be related to timing/leaks/wear and yes glow plugs, remember you said it didn’t pull like the other one so in your case all the checks for valve and injector timing, I say this because I have seen reco engines a tooth out in the valve timing, weird stuff like that will have you chasing your tail forever so back to the basics first my friend and go from there!
Sorry I can’t be any more helpful but these are machines - they have no emotions so a logical diagnosis process will deliver a logical conclusion is what my old foreman used to say.
God bless him!
-
Mallory is on the money I reckon.
Though you should be able to determine whether the glow plugs are working or not by pulling the fuse first thing and seeing if it starts and behaves poorly. But I dont think its glow plugs. Once they start the glow plugs time off pretty quick and the compression ignition keeps it going, not the plugs. The plugs just help ignite the fuel at initial start.
Back to basics I reckon.
How is the compression both dry and wet (wet with some oil squirted in the cylinder)?
How is the injection pump timing? How was it set?
Is it fitted with new/recon injectors. A dribbling injector can saturate one cylinder overnight and it can smoke for a while (if it does it enough it can compression lock the engine and smash the piston)
If they were reco's were they bench tested? If not you could always pull them yourself and take them to a diesel place and get them tested.
I feel your pain.
-
Hi guys, many thanks for your considered advise, it's this kind of help that makes this forum so good.
It's back in the mechanics hands to sort it as it's still under warranty.
As I have said I am far from being an expert so I have left it for them.
It does seem to be getting worse now so it may be easier to diagnose.
At build time both the glow plugs and injecters were replaced with new ones. The glow plugs which were replaced at build were 6.5v and now have been replaced with 11.5v and a new controller which extends the afterglow by cycling on and off for much longer than it used to with the oem setup.
In my opinion you guys are heading in the right direction as I think it is something internal such as valve seals, compression or a oil journal leak which seals again when it gets warm, I dunno though as I'm an IT tech, not a spannerman.
They have checked the injectors for correct pressures.
They have checked the timing, the diesel specialist has checked the pump and timing, all was well.
It's in the hands of the oily-fuel compression gods now.
Oh by the way after, or around the time of the first service, the power came back up to what I was expecting i.e. just enough to pull the skin off a custard as it always was. Fuel economy does seem to be better too by about 70-100 k's a tank from the old motor. It may have been just the tightness of the new motor.
I can't wait to get it back as once it's going well I am planning some mods for it as it now has to earn the money spent on the motor.
Rear draws with fridge slide (to be made by yours truly)
Dual battery
Electrics to the back
Clean up and re-install the cargo barrier
Once again guys thanks for your thoughts.
-
Keep pluggin Noel
remember new parts can also have faults don't take them for granted, make sure your mechanic re-tests them if not already
(hope he's not reading our posts!!)
cheers mate
-
Keep pluggin Noel
remember new parts can also have faults don't take them for granted,
Spot on.
I once rebuilt an engine and installed brand new points, condenser and dizzie cap.
It would start but run like crap. Worked out they had marked '1' on the dizzie 90deg to where it should have been and thats where i started from when putting the ht leads on.
Took half a day to work it out. >:D
-
Would be interested in outcome of this one. As mentioned above, all comments are on the money speaking as a tech also.
Strange you mention power returned after first service also (what changed what was 'found' disconnected or ...)
Good luck with repair.
I also know your pain with the RD28
-
OK an update.
It's been with the Diesel specialist most of last week. Got it back on Saturday with the mechanic saying "let's hope it is fixed". He had had it for a couple of days going through cold starts to see if it would play up and he could not fault it. Well I have to say it has started very smoothly and with no smoke since I got it back and it might be a goer.
The prognosis was the fuel pressure in the injector lines was too high causing backflow somewhere or other............ Yet it was OK before on the old motor???????.
I'll leave that one for the experts, I have no idea if I have been led up the garden path or not.
We are off to Wivenhoe Dam this weekend, time to reflect on the internal combustion diesel engine. I think not, a few ales might be the go, followed by a bottle of red and some good lies told. A good game of 500 might also be "on the cards".
Thanks to all of you for your input and kind thoughts. Makes me glad to be a member here on the best interwebby thingo Myswag. I'm off to play with our voip system, something I know something about (or think I know). In the words of the immortal Sergeant Shultz "I know nuffink"
Back in my corner!