MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Chippy76 on May 06, 2011, 02:24:02 PM
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Has anyone here done a 4wd course? If so who with and where? What did u think of it?
Cheers Chippy :D
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There is a company that does them (from Hervey Bay) out at Landcruiser Park. Also do CT towing, retrieval and parking. The name will come to me ...
Alternately, you can do them at Mt Cotton Training Centre I believe, and there is a mob that takes you to various parks (like the Scenic Rim 4X4 park) to do the training.
Also 4X4 clubs will do training for obvious reasons.
Let your fingers do the walking ...
Kit_e
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Let your fingers do the walking ...
These day's it's let's your mouse do the walking!! :cheers:
There are many out there - it depends on what your location is. The cheapest option may be to join a club as that is often the first thing you have to do when you join - their training course.
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There is a company that does them (from Hervey Bay) out at Landcruiser Park. Also do CT towing, retrieval and parking. The name will come to me ...
You're thinking of P7... http://www.p7offroad.com.au/ (http://www.p7offroad.com.au/)
Dave (aka Chopper on the overlander forums) runs it and is a real nice bloke. He does trips all over the place.
cheers
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Check out your local 4wd club.
http://www.4wdqld.com.au/club-contacts.html
They nearly all run accredited 4wd Driver Training courses as part of membership.
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Check out your local 4wd club.
http://www.4wdqld.com.au/club-contacts.html
They nearly all run accredited 4wd Driver Training courses as part of membership.
x2
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Go through your local 4wd club but make sure that they are a member of the 4wd association & you should be able to get Australia wide acreditation in the different modules, If you take their training, well worth doing even if you have been 4wdriving for a while, alternativly a private company should be able to tailor something to suit your level of experiance.
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You're thinking of P7... http://www.p7offroad.com.au/ (http://www.p7offroad.com.au/)
Dave (aka Chopper on the overlander forums) runs it and is a real nice bloke. He does trips all over the place.
cheers
Iv done one of his introductory courses, learned a bit but would love to look into one of their more experienced days out.
I would recommend them for sure.
Ben
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Check out your local 4wd club.
http://www.4wdqld.com.au/club-contacts.html
They nearly all run accredited 4wd Driver Training courses as part of membership.
x3 and once my accreditation is complete I'd consider running a MySwag course (just have to get back to Oz first)
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Mate, I have never done one. But when you listen to those who have i would say don't bother...
Some bloke with a beard, Khaki shirt,and a leather hat with badges who has somehow become an expert.
A lot of old wives tails and untruths get perpetrated with these courses...
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Mate, I have never done one. But when you listen to those who have i would say don't bother...
Some bloke with a beard, Khaki shirt,and a leather hat with badges who has somehow become an expert.
A lot of old wives tails and untruths get perpetrated with these courses...
dont know where you've been goin but that is a load of $hit. Accreditation is a pretty full on thing these days
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Depends on the course, I know the FWDV guys undergo extensive training and are accredited trainers.
http://www.fwdvictoria.org.au/
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dont know where you've been goin but that is a load of $hit. Accreditation is a pretty full on thing these days
Accreditation by who????
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We did courses with GetAbout in Sydney. Very knowledgeable intructors. Excellent. Learnt heaps, but we knew nothing anyway ;D
Did the 4WD Off Road and the sand driving course with them.
No beards, leather hats, Khaki shirts or badges. People who know their business.
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I better do a camping course too. I'm sure someone will invent this then convince people they need it...
How in the hell did the world exist without consultants and trainers.....
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Accreditation by who????
FWDV courses are nationally accredited and they are a registered training organisation. I know when I did my chainsaw operators ticket with them it is the actual subjects out of the TAFE course professional arborists sit.
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I better do a camping course too. I'm sure someone will invent this then convince people they need it...
How in the hell did the world exist without consultants and trainers.....
I think it was called the school of life/hard knocks (with a good douse of the uncommon, common sense or a kick up the @rse for being a dick head) ;D
Troy
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I think it was called the school of life/hard knocks (with a good douse of the uncommon, common sense or a kick up the @rse for being a dick head) ;D
Troy
True ,Troy, but when the Army told me I couldn't kick people up the arse for being a dickhead, I went out and became a consultant and trainer.
Almost every time I go off road I find those who lack basic commonsense eg if you softroader has 150mm clearance and the hump in the middle of the track is 200mm and you travel at 80km/hr the bottom 50mm of your sump is going to end up on the first rock.
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Almost every time I go off road I find those who lack basic commonsense eg if you softroader has 150mm clearance and the hump in the middle of the track is 200mm and you travel at 80km/hr the bottom 50mm of your sump is going to end up on the first rock.
The tracks are full of idiots like these... I think a lot of it comes down to people thinking " I own a 4wd, it can go anywhere" when in actual fact many are not 4wd, they are all wheel drive and lots of people in 4wd vehicles have no idea of how to actually drive them.
We both did a driving course through a 4wd club locally, nearly 10 years ago now but have also learnt heaps by going out with experienced drivers and learning how to drive in different conditions.
:cheers:
Dave
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I think you will learn more by going out onto real tracks with level headed, experienced drivers, who are prepared to impart their knowledge to you in a patient way.
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I think you will learn more by going out onto real tracks with level headed, experienced drivers, who are prepared to impart their knowledge to you in a patient way.
Or you could go out with Darren ;D
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Or you could go out with Darren ;D
I did said level headed and patient, not sure where he fits into that description.
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I'm not saying a course is a bad thing. just anwering darren's question ;D but I did learn the old school way for most things in life, and will hopefully pass that knowledge on in an appropriate way to anyone who wants to learn (I said WANTS to learn) and I'll try not to kick them >:D I'll get the misses to talk real nice to them (she works with a group training organisation and deals with apprentices all day) ;D
Troy :cheers:
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I think Darren probably has a low tolerance for F/Wits with no common sense >:( I'm hearing you Darren had 2 apprentices before, both were dip $hits for the first couple of months >:( :'( 8) >:( ??? ;D something like that :cheers:
Troy
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A lot of old wives tails and untruths get perpetrated with these courses...
and then some instructors might just teach you something worth learning....like hill stall stops, left foot braking technique, how to safely use recovery equipment just to name a few things.
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You need to understand one thing. All these trainers and training company’s aren’t here just because they want to make the world a better place, they are here to make money.. I assume the perception most have of me belies what I do for a living. In my job I have to deal with training and appointments and risk management everyday. Risk based management has swept through industry pushed by consultants much in the same way total quality management did in the early 90’s. Back then businesses were convinced they would not survive without accreditation yet nowadays you will find it hard to find someone who remembers the term. Riding along on the shirt tails of this latest phase is the training industry. Training companies convince big business that this is the way t go, more importantly they get in the ear of government regulators and legislators then it becomes compulsory.
I will give you an example in the 4WD world. Why do 4wd associations like 4wd vic exist? They start out as best intentions then they become a business that needs to profit. 4WD clubs now have read the memos and recommendations, done their internal risk assessments, now they say 4wd a course is pre requisite for a drive day. While the club may provide the training all their accreditation is at a cost. Look at the 4wd training companies websites; they all talk of government departments and businesses needing this. Take a look at the 4wd Vic website, there are all levels of courses, night courses, women’s courses, courses for red cars etc, all for money….
The next step for all this is already starting. These “associations “ are getting in the governments ear about trail closures, They say its ok to close the trails, then only those that can use them are those on designated trips run by accredited clubs or tours, that of course only have trained members. And every step along the way this involves money. You’re probably thinking I now have a tinfoil hat but if you take a little step back and take in the full view you will see the signs.
What doesn’t help these days is we live in the ‘it’s someone else’s fault’ world where we sue the government because a branch falls on our car in a state forest. People take no responsibilities for themselves so they need to be told to do things they could easily learn by themselves through experience.
This may sound like a rant I thought I would explain my views on the subject.
So why not try reading a few things, as a few questions, take the family out for a few easy drives, use some common sense, take a few calculated risks and note the outcomes, try things for yourself. Basically learn how people have been for ever.
More importantly keep your money in your pocket
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Having been through the TQM experience I agree with you Darren, did I mention I was once a consultant :) This whole risk based management is getting a little out of control but it is the world we live in today. That said I think there is a place for joining a club and doing some courses. I learnt some good tips from the courses but yes driving in the bush with people who know what they're doing is the best method. Most of all I met some really good people at the club who will be lifetime friends. I also met some tossers but you get that.
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Edited due to being off topic.
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The courses we did were basic, just to get you comfy with your wagon.
Instruction first, then the practical bit. If you get it wrong, there is someone with experience to help you sort it.
Then you go out and about and learn more.
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>:(
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You need to understand one thing. All these trainers and training company's aren't here just because they want to make the world a better place, they are here to make money
I could,nt agree with you more i worked for a company that made us do a certificate 3 in transport a certificate for truck drivers what next.
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Mate, I have never done one. But when you listen to those who have i would say don't bother...
Some bloke with a beard, Khaki shirt,and a leather hat with badges who has somehow become an expert.
A lot of old wives tails and untruths get perpetrated with these courses...
I did one as part of an entry to a 4wd club a while back. Painful. The instructor wanted to point out things on 4wd's so he called the group around to the front of my car. He pointed at the winch rope which was hooked to the bar around the rollers and said 'this is dangerous' and continued to lecture the group why. (he thought if the car hit something, than the winch rope could become damaged and unnoticed until it failed when in use, which to a degree is right). I let him finish, and then politely replied with why it was like this. (if you run the hook back into the rollers like suggested it will nick and damage the rollers, later this will nick the rope when it is run through it). He didn't like this and he then moved onto the next car...
A legend in his own lunchbox, beard, khaki shirt with badges and a leather hat.
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I must say that i think a 4wd course is a great idea for most people. I am a member of a club, did my training through the club although it is not compulsory. I picked up a few things but more importantly my wife who also did the course gained heaps from it.
I can also assure you that the guys that ran our course certainly aren't in it for the money, the amount they got paid wouldn't even cover their fuel costs to get to the various places we did our practicals.
Real world experience tells me that a LOT of the people out there on the trails could do with a basic course as they don't even understand the basics, especially when it comes recoveries. After all how many people use the tow ball for snatch recoveries? LOTS from what i have seen.
Getting out on the trails with other experienced people helps but a good course is a great place for anyone begining in their 4WDriving career.
Cheers Andrew
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Interesting how we see people as D/heads, F/wits, no common sense etc when we are in a field or area with which we are comfortable.
What were other peoples' opinions of us when we were learning. Not much different.
The people I worked with thought I was very clever in the work I did. I couldn't see why (common sense to me as I had learnt it over many years - courses and on the job). They would explain a procedure they were working on to me, no idea what they were talking about. Common sense to them.
We are all F/wits, D/heads or whatever to someone else. Some one may be brilliant in some areas and totally hopeless in others. It is the way we are. Not F/wits, D/heads , without common sense. Just different ways of seeing and doing things.
Oooops, the Dr is on Tele.
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I did my 4WD training with the Army and later became a driver trainer with them. We taught vehicle recovery by getting vehicles stuck, and you did self recovery once you got stuck.
I joined a 4WD club where my brother in law is one of the accredited driver trainers and he does it for a living too as well as writing for some of the current publications. He refused to take me on the course that I need to do on the basis of "what the %$#& could I teach you".
Fortunately we have a friend who owns a training company who in his spare time is assessing me under the recognition of prior learning guidlines so I can become an accredited 4WD trainer.
Can't imagine any of the current specialist training mobs teaching you recovery techniques by making you get stuck first.
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Can't imagine any of the current specialist training mobs teaching you recovery techniques by making you get stuck first.
The advanced courses do
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Also check you vehicles insurance policy because if you read the PDS your vehicle may not covered by your insurance company if an accident is to happen, while undertaking the course.
Read the fine print 1ST................................
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Can't imagine any of the current specialist training mobs teaching you recovery techniques by making you get stuck first.
Thats the first thing we did, get bogged, no point in trying to recover a vehicle that can drive out its self. We also had to get stuck and recovered in varoius differnt situations, Mud , Sand, uphill, downhill you name it.
Cheers Andrew
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Most that I've looked cover recovery in a seperate course althought I can't imagine seeing anybody having their vehicle front stuck on one side of the gully and the rear on the other with all wheels in the air like one of my Army students managed.......
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I don't understand why this thread got so "off course" - pun intended.
If anyone out there feels that they need to, would like to, or don't want to ... do a course ... then it's up to the individual. You have no idea what Chippy's experience is ... you have no idea what my experience is ... I have no idea what your experience is. If I or anyone feels they wish to do a course, then I think that is a very responsible thing to do. Learning from your mistakes can end in tragedy, especially where operation and recovery are concerned (which brings to memory some overturned tourists on fraser & a recent death during a recovery).
Whether the bloke teaching dresses in khaki or not (he's probably issued an easy clean uniform), if he wears a hat (he's probably conscious about not getting sunburned or ending up with cancer) and if he's wearing little pins on his lapel, let's hope one of those is in support of breast cancer or the anzacs, really doesn't matter ... it's what he's got to teach you that does ... whether you pay for the priveledge or not shouldn't matter ... just the skills you can gain.
The way I see things, not one person here was born with the skills or knowledge to handle a vehicle, cook or even bloody speak for that matter, we've all had to learn them. Not everyone on this planet has the same opinion on things (I think it would be rather boring) and not everyone is right (damn it ... did I just say I wasn't always right just then?). You can learn many things from a forum, and not all of those are about the subject the forum contains, but often about the people who attend it.
Please let those who wish to get their learning from someone other than a beer swilling yobbo with little or no comon sense, do so.
Kit_e
P.S. I'm dead set certain a vast majority of our population was not taught common sense.
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P.S. I'm dead set certain a vast majority of our population was not taught common sense.
x infinity
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If anyone out there feels that they need to, would like to, or don't want to ... do a course ... then it's up to the individual.
Yes and no, with some 4WD clubs you have to do 'their' training course before you are allowed to become a member. Some won't even take you along on a trip unless you have done it. This is the main reason why I have steered away from joining a club.
I was in the SES for years where we did all kinds of crazy things with vehicles and got them out again - why should I have to do your 'special' 4WD course just to become a member?
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I was in the SES for years where we did all kinds of crazy things with vehicles and got them out again - why should I have to do your 'special' 4WD course just to become a member?
Most of the better clubs run nationally recognised courses. Your SES training would be nationally recognised so you would not be required to recertify.
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All these trainers and training company’s aren’t here just because they want to make the world a better place, they are here to make money..
On what planet?
Driver trainers in our club do it for free - they dont even get a free feed. They are fully accredited trainers and up to date. They teach people how to get out of trouble before they get in trouble in a stress free environment.
The only thing the person pays is the garbage fee the association charge.
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I agree with Estelle, why has this thread gone so off topic ??? ??? ???
Is anyone able to simply answer Chippy's question rather than give their irrelevant opinion of courses etc ??? ???
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Has anyone here done a 4wd course? If so who with and where? What did u think of it?
Cheers Chippy :D
Hi Chippy
When I first got my 4wd vehicle I did two courses, first was a bush driving course, second was a sand driving course. Both courses done with Getabout Tours. I needed to know the capability of the vehicle as well as my own capability.
We were also taught basic maintenance, recovery techniques ( yes we bogged a vehicle and recovered it), winching etc.
Course was well worth it and no yoboos or mud runners. I have used the recovery techniques a few times since. Would strongly recommend these courses to those new to 4wd.
Just my opinion
Cheers
Carl
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Has anyone here done a 4wd course? If so who with and where? What did u think of it?
Cheers Chippy :D
i can reccomend Dave from P7 also if you want to do a course, i know several people (both husbands and wives) who have done courses with him and they all have good things to say about him.
here's a video i did with him a few years back at the old Fraser Island Fishing Expo, filmed by WIN TV and shown as a safety thing on the big screen to everyone who was there. would have been nice to have a wide shot of the whole recovery at the end, but seeing as Toyota sponsored the event, they didn't want a Patrol in the video. just so you know, Dave stalled his fourby as he recovered my vehicle, that's how slow he was going at the time, so speed has nothing to do with how a snatch strap works!!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oISdDPliZSA