MySwag.org The Off-road Camper Trailer Forum
General => General Discussion => Topic started by: D4D on March 18, 2011, 05:13:43 PM
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http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/commonwealth-overrides-victoria-on-issue-of-grazing-in-alpine-park/story-e6frg6nf-1226024063731
The Gillard government has dramatically intervened to override the Victorian government over grazing in the Alpine National Park, issuing an April 8 deadline for cattle to be removed.
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I'm sure that ranga trol's this forum. I think she's suffering from freedom envy.
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>:D Just don't get me started >:D
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Thats great news :cup:
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Bob the ( Green ) builder is on the job . Lets all settle back bend over & cop it sweet till we can put them back where they belong . Long Drop :cheers: ( end political rant ) ;D.
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April 9 is the new Victorian public holiday.
it's called "Everybody eat Steak day"
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Starting a good basis for revolution of states against federal
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If everyone was genuinely concerned about the size of the cattle herd in Australia and our ability to produce beef we would do something to stop farmers subdividing prime grazing land for it to be sold to lifestyle and hobby farmers that no longer use it for production. A few cows being shut out of some summer scrub grazing country is quite insignificant to this. But i guess it isn't romantic enough to make the news or forum pages...
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Did they only remove the cattle so the prospective commercial gigs move in???
http://vnpa.org.au/page/nature-conservation/media-releases/tourism-facilities-in-national-parks-could-kill-'golden-goose
http://www.npansw.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=110&Itemid=495
http://www.npansw.org.au/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=534:background-to-the-current-tourism-and-national-parks-crisis&catid=110:tourism&Itemid=496
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Good question , but whos hand is up whos back & pulling the strings ???
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Okay this seems stupid to me being a grazier myself in queensland I know that if country is not grazed the risk of out of control bushfires increases dramatically. I'm no expert on the high country but surely sensable stocking rates would reduce fuel without any effect on the country. Have they thought this through?
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Okay this seems stupid to me being a grazier myself in queensland I know that if country is not grazed the risk of out of control bushfires increases dramatically. I'm no expert on the high country but surely sensable stocking rates would reduce fuel without any effect on the country. Have they thought this through?
You're quite right markp, and common sense (which isn't so common anymore) says you're right too....
the problem here in Victoria is that a "study" was taken which reached a conclusion to the contrary and this keeps on getting quoted ...
.......noone quoting it actually read the report and the conclusion was drawn from a grazing run that could have been grazed (at more realistic stocking rates) but was never actually grazed prior to the study because the cattle weren't in the area.
grazing will be the least of our worries here in Vic high country once the development and restricted access starts to protect the commercial operators
thin end of the wedge , but the greenwashed don't see it
Stevo
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but the greenwashed don't see it
Where is Barry?
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Where is Barry?
;D ;D ;D .... sure he'll be along shortly :-*
>:D Just don't get me started >:D
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I will be the devils advocate here, tell me the difference between the Graziers (commercial operation last time I checked ) and any other operation that makes money, a vested interest if ever I heard one and do these graziers pay market rate for this adgistment or did they get a mates rate, Their are many areas for cattle to graze, but where else can the things that rely on this environment go? I love a steak/lamb roast but I go camping to see the beautiful country not piles of steaming cow crap, FYI my family background includes graziers/shearer's, meatworkers, no rampant greenies just realists. :cheers:
Grizzly
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I will be the devils advocate here, tell me the difference between the Graziers (commercial operation last time I checked ) and any other operation that makes money, a vested interest if ever I heard one and do these graziers pay market rate for this adgistment or did they get a mates rate, Their are many areas for cattle to graze, but where else can the things that rely on this environment go? I love a steak/lamb roast but I go camping to see the beautiful country not piles of steaming cow crap, FYI my family background includes graziers/shearer's, meatworkers, no rampant greenies just realists. :cheers:
Grizzly
You're quite right Grizzly, the graziers have a vested interest to look after the land they're using whether they own it or not. After a century and a half I reckon that on balance they did a pretty good job and the area is still considered a pristine alpine environment and good enough for heritage listing and good enough to be a National Park.
Pretty good job, I'd reckon.
As far as market rates on agistment, there have always been licence fees levied on the cattlemen
and set by the government. Was never called agistment because that would mean our government would have more responsibilities to the cattlemen and cattle. Provision of water, cattle yards, fencing, fertiliser, insurance, continuous feed, access and a host of other things would need to be provided by the government for a "normal" agistment agreement at flatland market rates.
Stevo
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Maybe we can train the cows in the high country?
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/lifestyle/the-other-side/luna-the-cow-who-thinks-shes-a-showjumping-horse/story-e6frfhk6-1226034493867
When Regina Mayer's parents refused to buy her horse, she refused to give up on her dream of showjumping.
The German teenager went straight out to the dairy paddock on her family's farm and saddled up one of the cows.
Regina, 15, spent months training Luna and can now ride her with ease.
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Most graziers like myself are probably more realist than most because like you say stevo we have to look after our land if we want it to be handed down to our children and grandchildren like it has been handed to me it has to be looked after. My family has been grazeing country in QLD for four generations and the country we have is just as fertile and productive as ever probably more so. We have 85000 acres and without man made water such as bores and dams there would be no water for 50 klms either side of our homestead not to mention feed, so long way between drinks for skippy, by the way there are thousands at any one time here. I dont believe that many graziers would abuse this land and as stevo says its still in pretty good shape maybe even better for it. Just my opinion Grizzly.
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Great post Mark, 85,000 acres :o I'd love 1 acre :) It is a pity the text book uni raised public servants and urban greenies don't actually take the time to learn from you guys.
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NO GRAZE ,,,,, YOU BLAZE ,,,,, YOUR CALL ,,,,,,,,?
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Bob Brown 1, Baillieu Government 0
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/more-news/controversial-cattle-grazing-trial-suspended-in-alpine-national-park/story-fn7x8me2-1226037806090
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Markp
It is the great work like your family has done over generations that prove to the radical green fruitloops that the majority of farmers do have a vested interest in the long term health of the land that they manage, the question is can we do this in an area that you are competing with vulnerable species that do not have the option to leave when it gets to cold etc, cattle grazing can never be said not to have an impact and needs to be managed,and there are many things in our world we used to do and do not do any longer because we have since learnt that they do cause harm to the environment and or people, Since the areas where closed to grazing I did not notice the T bone steak disappear from the butcher shop, it has meant that some graziers have had to rearrange their practices, I wish to see these areas how they look with out the disturbance of stock or developers, and if both side were to meet in the middle rather than at either end of their own agendas maybe their could still be both, as far as graze or blaze that is purely emotive and I have fought fires in grazed and ungrazed land ,for example I believe a lot of what burnt in black Saturday was grazed?
Grizzly
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http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/department-warns-against-alpine-grazing-trial-20111215-1owt0.html (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/department-warns-against-alpine-grazing-trial-20111215-1owt0.html)
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NO GRAZE ,,,,, YOU BLAZE ,,,,, YOUR CALL ,,,,,,,,?
Cattle eat green grass,
not leaf litter/fuel for bushfires!!!
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Cattle eat green grass,
Yes and this prevents green grass turning into brown grass, fuel for bushfires ::)
Watch out for the nematodes ;D
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Yes and this prevents green grass turning into brown grass, fuel for bushfires ::)
Watch out for the nematodes ;D
And here I was thinking that dead leaves and branches from trees was fuel for bushfires, silly me :'(
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If you check out the amount of grass in a good paddock without stock, you won't even notice the leaves and sticks.
I'm a Publice Servant and have to agree that we make some terribly uninformed decisions, mainly because most of us live in Ivory towers in the city and consider anything an hour from the City to be unchartered wilderness, full of kangaroos. And Ministers listen to our advice.
I'm afraid we'll all be bending over for the Brown bobber eventually.
Regards
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If you check out the amount of grass in a good paddock without stock, you won't even notice the leaves and sticks.
I'm a Publice Servant and have to agree that we make some terribly uninformed decisions, mainly because most of us live in Ivory towers in the city and consider anything an hour from the City to be unchartered wilderness, full of kangaroos. And Ministers listen to our advice.
I'm afraid we'll all be bending over for the Brown bobber eventually.
Regards
So letting cattle graze in the Alpine regions will prevent bushfires, give me a break!!!!!!!!
The only differance would be dead cows, mmmmm steaaaaak
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I'm an ignorant NSwelshman, but I go to to the high country often and love it......
I'm also NOT a public servant and have no informed opinions of the situation.
BUT........
I do know it has nothing to do with bushfires or grazing.
It called politics Nothing more nothing less.
Come on Bob its my turn now. Vaseline please its still virgin...........
Roll on election........lets hope people aren't stupid enough to let the terrorists greens get any more power.
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Roll on election........lets hope people aren't stupid enough to let the terrorists greens get any more power.
sadly voters are stupid.... or we wouldnt be in this position... doggy.
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Just a few points, the total amout of cattle is only in the hundreds, you would be lucky to see 1. Grazing can reduce the severity of a bushfire, majority of the black Saturday fires that burnt in the hills, was not grazed. what about the damage that the wild deer do, they are up there all year. I think it's just the start, 4wd's will be next. Just think about it at the next elections!
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I've been going to the Victorian high country for about 20 years, give or take. Both with and without cattle grazing. Personally, I find it quite amazing , even nostalgic, to come across a mob grazing. It's a throw back to a "bygone" era, something to explain to the kids, regale them with stories written many a year ago. And i have to have to say I've never had to dodge huge piles of Steamers.
Just another stupid decison made by numbskulls in Canberra, messing with State affairs, by people, some of which have probably never set foot in Victoria, let alone the High Country. Joolia Bogan and her political Puppetmaster Bob to Bobbleheaded Git, know they only have a limited time to ruin the country before they get voted out at the next election, so they appear to be on a rampage to perform as much carnage as possible before their time runs out! Problem is, I dont think the alternative is much better :(
*Kicks Soapbox back under the table*
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Todays report.
Burke bans cattle grazing in Vic park
January 31, 2012 - 12:59PM
The federal government has banned cattle grazing in Victoria's Alpine National Park.
Federal Environment Minister Tony Burke said the Victorian coalition government's proposal to reintroduce cattle to the park would undermine the national heritage values of the Australian Alps National Parks.
"My decision is based on a thorough and rigorous assessment of the proposal, taking into account the advice of my department (WHO? HIS OWN EXPERTS, OR THE GREENS?)," Mr Burke said in a statement on Tuesday.
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"My decision is based on a thorough and rigorous assessment of the proposal, taking into account the advice of my department (WHO? HIS OWN EXPERTS, OR THE GREENS?)," Mr Burke said in a statement on Tuesday.
I take it that was a Rhetorical Question ;)
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Personally I think it is a good thing. The original decision to cease cattle in the High Country was done by the previous ALP Gov't in Victoria. The current Gov't in Victoria overturned it when they were taken over by the National Party and got a few votes out of it....this is politics.
The Gilliard Government then overode it cos it is a dumb thing to do by the Vic Gov't (which was done purely for political purposes) based upon all of the scientific advice etc they have been provided. Allowing cattle to graze due to nostalgia is not enough reason.
Hopefully it means that this area will be available for all of us to use in the future.
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Hopefully it means that this area will be available for all of us to use in the future.
Not it Prime Minister Brown and Deputy Joolia have their way
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Hopefully it means that this area will be available for all of us to use in the future.
Not sure what part of grazing would "undermine the national heritage value". I though it would actually improve the "heritage value" given it's historical perspective and impact on Australian Literature/history?
I can honestly say that at no time in my many trips to the Vic high country has a grazing Heifer ever confronted me and told me to get out of "their" territory. Humans on the other hand......... I've had a few that had "laid claim" to a particular piece of Camp site as if they own it.
I'm not sure if the "science" supports "Alpine grazing reduces Blazing", but i know that in the paddocks behind my place, they used to run a small heard. the grass never needed slashing. Since the cattle were "moved on" 3 years ago, we have had to fight to get the Head high grass slashed by the owner every year to reduce the fire hazard.
Yep it's politics alright. Joolia has less credability than a Used Car Salesman right now. Pretty hard to take anything the Fed's do seriously, other than the fact that it seriously effects all of us. Be Afraid, be very Afraid.
Just like Labor stopped it to get some Votes, Big Ted and Co. brought it back in for some Votes, and now Joolia is digging her Heels in Because her Boss, Bob Brown, is probably telling her to, and hiding in the background so no one can see him pulling the puppet strings . Meantime, Real actual people, who have business's to run and an economy to stimulate, get ignored and thrown around like ping pong balls in a tornado while numbskulls in far away places make decisions about places they've never actually been to, and things they know nothing more about that what an expert, who they paid for their opinion tells them to think. Where do you think the universities get the money to do this research? It's not all from Student fees, that's for sure.
there will always be two camps (no pun intended) to this, and there realistically is no middle ground. Meanwhile, the Man (and women) on the Land gets screwed. Not trying to start a flame war, its just the other point of view. This is a divisive topic, maybe alomost as much as Pro-Life vs Pro-choice (well, amongst this crowd awayway!!) there is probalby a point where we need to agree to disagree.
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I support the cattle grazing , and see this as another attack on our cultural heritage.
Lets hope Ted appeals and continues the fight.
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shame joolia shame. the redhead and bendover bob are tryin their hardest to stuff this country. sadly this is not the australia i grew up in
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Not it Prime Minister Brown and Deputy Joolia have their way
Bingo.,
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This is turnining into a political topic and as usual it is all Julia and Bob Browns fault, with conspiracy therioes abound. Was thinking of wrirting a long response but this isnt the forum and I would like to be nice to ppl in the future, as have appreciated advice etc. Agree to disagree
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This is turnining into a political topic and as usual it is all Julia and Bob Browns fault, with conspiracy therioes abound. Was thinking of wrirting a long response but this isnt the forum and I would like to be nice to ppl in the future, as have appreciated advice etc. Agree to disagree
x2
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But, you must believe Mr Burke when he says this...
http://www.fishingworld.com.au/news/exclusive-burke-unveils-his-vision-for-fishing (http://www.fishingworld.com.au/news/exclusive-burke-unveils-his-vision-for-fishing)
Although his masters say this.....
http://greens.org.au/policies/environment/marine-and-coastal-areas (http://greens.org.au/policies/environment/marine-and-coastal-areas)
Fish Facts April 2012 – Australia to have 70% of the worlds Marine Parks
For the purposes of the planning process, Australia’s marine waters have been divided into 6 bioregions, namely the South East, South West, North West, North, Coral Sea and Temperate east regions. Before the 2007 election, the bioregional planning process had just finished with rezoning of the South East region, which resulted in establishment of one of the worlds largest marine parks (338,000 square km) in the waters surrounding Tasmania, Victoria , Southern NSW and the Antarctic territories
The summary statistics are contained in Table 1, where it is evident that a 700% increase in marine parks area has been planned, taking up nearly 2.4 million square km or 34% of Australia’s Exclusive Economic Zone (EEZ). Of this area, up to 53% of the various bioregions is being proposed to be closed to all fishing (overall average 41.69%), which equates to a staggering 16% of the entire EEZ. This means that the Australian Government plans to exceed the international marine park targets by around 339%, around 8 years ahead of schedule.
Now ignoring the new parks in state waters for a moment, the planned additional 2,398,216 km2 of marine parks in Federal waters during the bioregional planning process are greater in area than the entire worlds MPA area as of 2010.
And if the government runs to plan, by the end of 2012, we will have 840,000 + 2,396,216 = approx 3,236,216 km2 of MPAs in Australia (both state and federal marine parks). Assuming that no other big parks are declared around the world this year (there is 8 years to go to meet the international deadline, so whats the rush ?), the world total will be
2,200,000 km2 + 2,396,216 km2 (the new parks from Australia) = 4,596,216 km2
SO, by end of 2012, it is entirely possible then that if other countries delay implementation of new parks until closer to 2020, Australia will have (3,236,216/4,596,216)*100 = 70.4% of the entire worlds marine park area........
I think the figures speak for themselves.
The above information provided by Sunfish. Qld.
Rod
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The figuers do speak them for themselves but I dont see your point..are you saying it is a bad thing that Australia will have a lot of National Parks and Marine Zones? As a farther of three young people, I can only hope that they will see and experience things I have seen in the Australian bush and oceans, but if it isnt protected it wont be there. You only have to look to Europe and other parts of the world to see the pollution and destruction.
We all enjoy the camping experience (I think that is why we are here) so the more the better, unless you want to live in industrial waste lands, with land bought up by foregin companies sucking out the resources with no care for what is left behind
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Just suppose we had a resource that would /could be used & be self sustaining . By using it wisely over many generations that have looked after it with the knowledge to maintain the asset . People would come to see it an action & share in the experience . Creating many jobs along the way , improving the economy of little towns in the regins . This would slow the decline & drift of people from the bush to the city . Once there had been thriving community's but because of the resource was locked away there is only a memory of what had been & a decline of skills to the point where all that's left is whats written in the pages of history .
In the mean while with nobody maintaining the resource it creates its own problems as it rambles out of control . Eventully it become a hazard to the remains of the community's that were created around it .
If it ain't broke dint fix it
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Don't trust politicians or their families......
http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/baillieu-clans-key-cattleman-20111208-1olha.html (http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/baillieu-clans-key-cattleman-20111208-1olha.html)
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Don't believe everything you read :)
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Don't trust politicians or their families......
that line right there is worth believing!!!
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Don't trust politicians or their families......x3
Agreed, there seems to be a common view that the current PM is a liar and that this is something new...regardless of their political flavour they are all in the end the same...promisis will be made and broken if it means that this increases their vote...this is a reality of politics. I couldnt count how many times the previous PM broke promisis..the same with Premier of Vic (current and previous)
I cant recall a politician who kept their word, either at the state, federal or local level.
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Seems more to do with some hanging onto dreams of a bygone era than real science.
Hooved animals are not native to Australia and cause damage to fragile ecosystems such as the snowy.
I would love to be the man from Araluen and graze the high country. Sadly it ain't Gunna happen. Like the model T it was a quaint past time but it's time has passed. Move on.
It's a national park. Treat it like one I reckon.
:)
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Treat it like one I reckon.
I agree... close them so future generations in 20,000 years time can see them too.
Between now and then, nobody is allowed in.
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I'd much prefer National Parks to private resorts, which is what we would get if silver spoon Ted and his Liberal Party mates had their way :-[
Ted is a dud hence why we don't see or hear much from him... He and his party are lying very low until the next election for fear of being found out!
I can't believe the negativity surrounding our Prime Minister and put most of it down to people absorbing the so obviously bias and DUMB media we are all subjected to ???
Oh and to give some perspective: It's not alpine grazing that is banned, just grazing within the Alpine N.P.
:cheers:
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I'd much prefer National Parks to private resorts, which is what we would get if silver spoon Ted and his Liberal Party mates had their way
It was the former labor gov't that instigated the report into developing of National parks to allow private development and how to streamline the process to remove extra costs and obstacles to developers and veto rights of most gov't departments... I don't think it matters who is in power, I think that they will soon allow private developers in to open resorts / camp grounds, etc and then ban free camping elsewhere so as not to provide "unfair" competition to the developers. Hope it never happens but fully expect it to.
:cheers:
Dave
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Join up, it is only $40/yr - Mountain Cattlemen’s Association of Victoria
http://www.mcav.com.au/documents/MCAV%20Membership%20Form%202011-12.pdf (http://www.mcav.com.au/documents/MCAV%20Membership%20Form%202011-12.pdf)
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So when do you think whatever government is in will REALLY get real and send in licensed shooters (not hunters) to get rid of all, and I mean ALL those bloody horses that do more damage than the cattle, the feral dogs (not dingos) and cats that live off of the native animals that are left ?
Not in my lifetime methinks.
Could you imagine all the "animal lovers" screaming their mammary's off if their darling "brumbies" were turned into food for my registered, microchipped and desexed dog. That was tried in the "Kozy Park" a few years ago but was dropped, it was called culling, I called it wonderfull !!
These animals are all ok in their place, but that is not in the Australian bush.
Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I am rather passionate about this country of ours, and think the silent majority is going to have to start shouting louder and tell more lies and half truths than the "greenies" to protect our heritage and lifestyle
cheers Keith
ps if you think this I'm over the top on this don't get me started on people that leave rubbish around river banks and camp sites
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So when do you think whatever government is in will REALLY get real and send in licensed shooters (not hunters) to get rid of all, and I mean ALL those bloody horses that do more damage than the cattle, the feral dogs (not dingos) and cats that live off of the native animals that are left ?
Not in my lifetime methinks.
Could you imagine all the "animal lovers" screaming their mammary's off if their darling "brumbies" were turned into food for my registered, microchipped and desexed dog. That was tried in the "Kozy Park" a few years ago but was dropped, it was called culling, I called it wonderfull !!
These animals are all ok in their place, but that is not in the Australian bush.
Sorry if this sounds like a rant, but I am rather passionate about this country of ours, and think the silent majority is going to have to start shouting louder and tell more lies and half truths than the "greenies" to protect our heritage and lifestyle
cheers Keith
ps if you think this I'm over the top on this don't get me started on people that leave rubbish around river banks and camp sites
Agreed, agreed, agreed.... We had this same conversation over the weekend and I brought up exactly the same sorts of things about horses, etc but you should add deer to the list, specially Sambar. They are an introduced species, a pest animal and are breeding out of control even though there are heaps of people hunting them using hounds and by stalking. They are huge animals, not quite the size of a horse but still a big heavy animal easily the size of a cow. It is too easy for the gov't to say they are doing something by doing something that costs them nothing when in reality, they need to spend money to do the job properly. There is that saying... If it is worth doing, it is worth doing properly.
:cheers:
Dave
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Hmm...
The Baillieu government has failed in its legal bid to overturn a ban by the Commonwealth on its plans to return cattle grazing to the Alpine National Park.
In a judgment handed down in the Federal Court on Friday, Justice Susan Kenny dismissed Victoria's case on all grounds and ordered the state to pay legal costs.
The Baillieu government had wanted to run a six-year trial to test whether cattle grazing curbed bushfire risk by reducing fuel loads.
Cattle grazing in the park was banned by the Bracks government in 2005, with compensation paid to grazing families. But cows were returned to the park in early 2011 by the Baillieu government, soon after it won office.
Critics say the practice damages the pristine alpine wilderness and the trial is a political sop to the Mountain Cattlemens Association of Victoria who publicly and financially backed the Coalition at the last state election.
After 400 cows re-entered the park two summers ago, the Commonwealth ordered they be removed because the grazing trial had not received approval under national environment laws
Read more: http://www.theage.com.au/environment/cattle-grazing-ban-to-stand-20130104-2c8b0.html#ixzz2GyGe90ns (http://www.theage.com.au/environment/cattle-grazing-ban-to-stand-20130104-2c8b0.html#ixzz2GyGe90ns)
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Well, seeing as we saw this a few days ago, and had to move a few "steamers" to set up, i suppose we had better savour the moment, at least my kids got to see it........
There was half a dozen cows wandering around Pineapple flat when we dropped by too........ Never seen then at Pineapple flat before, plenty of times up the hill....
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http://www.theage.com.au/environment/conservation/greg-hunt-approves-victorian-alpine-national-park-cattle-grazing-trial-20140306-348do.html (http://www.theage.com.au/environment/conservation/greg-hunt-approves-victorian-alpine-national-park-cattle-grazing-trial-20140306-348do.html)
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http://www.theage.com.au/environment/conservation/greg-hunt-approves-victorian-alpine-national-park-cattle-grazing-trial-20140306-348do.html (http://www.theage.com.au/environment/conservation/greg-hunt-approves-victorian-alpine-national-park-cattle-grazing-trial-20140306-348do.html)
Sheeezz. That's going to upset the Oracle, spreading them nematodes everywhere.
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wow, let's reignite this age old discussion.
There'd be more than 60 (and possibly more than 300) wild brumbies already in the alpine areas.
I also read an article today that the Gov are thinking of approving an extended deer hunt in the Vic HC as they are reaching endemic number also. Are we discriminating agains the cows?
What next, they'll cull mountain folk, myswaggers, and 4wd'ers for overbreeding in the bush?
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Drove Davies plains track on Monday, came across 3 different mobs of brumbies. Would be thinking your estimate of numbers would be at the upper end or over the numbers you said
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I know a lot of the truths of cattle in the high country, and don't take either sides views 100%. Cattle should be allowed to be run in the high country, in fenced grass plain areas that keep them out of water courses and it should be an open tender process that gives every Victorian an opportunity to tender, highest bidders win and so does Victoria.
No closed shop ripping off the public for all it worth in the name of history. Cows make no difference to fuel loads in forest, they don't eat bark and sticks, only grass.
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Less grass , less ability to burn the bark & twigs . For F#$% sake FIRE is so much a part of Australian bush .
What ever we can do to feed us before the High country goes up .Then so much the better .
1/2 witted green treehuggers . that wouldn't know if a large brown dog was up them can go & fight the fires that they fuelled . Or will they drink coffee & P%^& in their pockets about vege tucker not beef
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Don't urinate upon my dorsal area & claim perspiration
Got a problem eat the deposits of a ruminate , are you with me ;D
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It's political, not about fires. What will get votes, are the green voters going to get your party elected or the cattlemen. Who has the cash to shout the loudest.
I have no side but I see both sides doing what I do,
Like I said, they should be allowed in the high country on whatever crown land suits (park or forest), but fenced from waterways (have you seen what cattle do to farm dams).
The licence to run them should be open tender, it's land owned buy the Victorian public, so anybody should have an opportunity to have a crack, not just a handshake few.
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great points Andrew.
NSW stopped grazing (pretty sure in the 80's) ages ago, as the science showed that the best way to look after the Alps was with out cattle grazing. I really cant work out why there has been so much political footballing with the Parks in Vic.
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Can't compare damaged farm dams to high country grazing
stocking rates are vastly different ... but go ahead people who don't know will believe
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It's political, not about fires. What will get votes, are the green voters going to get your party elected or the cattlemen. Who has the cash to shout the loudest.
Bingo.
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Less grass , less ability to burn the bark & twigs . For F#$% sake FIRE is so much a part of Australian bush .
What ever we can do to feed us before the High country goes up .Then so much the better .
1/2 witted green treehuggers . that wouldn't know if a large brown dog was up them can go & fight the fires that they fuelled . Or will they drink coffee & P%^& in their pockets about vege tucker not beef
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Don't urinate upon my dorsal area & claim perspiration
Got a problem eat the deposits of a ruminate , are you with me ;D
read my mind
gordo350