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General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Yoda42 on February 10, 2011, 10:11:34 AM

Title: What size power lead?
Post by: Yoda42 on February 10, 2011, 10:11:34 AM
We are powered site virgins ;D

We've never needed power to date with our camping, as we've relied on our solar panel and not too many accessories, the fridge and lighting being the most we've had requiring power.

But with the advent of the trailer, in order to extend our camping "season", we're going to want power to run a kick arse fan (still looking for a portable a/c that would fit the bill!).

It's only just crossed our minds - what length power lead do most people use? What's the furthest you've had to run a lead?
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: D4D on February 10, 2011, 10:19:17 AM
Depends on the site, some have required 10m others 30m. By law (Symon can correct me) it can only be one lead. I have a 30m, I figure8 it under the camper if I don't require the full length. When I had the Tambo I also ran my own RCD device, the Goldstream has one built in. You'll also find they're 15amp circuits.
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Maîneÿ . . . on February 10, 2011, 10:23:44 AM

We've never needed power to date with our camping, as we've relied on our solar panel and not too many accessories, the fridge and lighting being the most we've had requiring power.

But with the advent of the trailer, in order to extend our camping "season", we're going to want power to run a kick arse fan (still looking for a portable a/c that would fit the bill!).

It's only just crossed our minds - what length power lead do most people use? What's the furthest you've had to run a lead?

I take 2 x 30Mt, 240v extension cables with me, and also have a 10Mt solar power extension cable  ;D

I sometimes leave the van with solar panels attached to roof in the sun, camp in the shade, and run the accessories from the inverter from the 2 x 240v extension leads

Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Symon on February 10, 2011, 11:53:24 AM
Depends on the site, some have required 10m others 30m. By law (Symon can correct me) it can only be one lead. I have a 30m

Correct, if you comply with AS then the maximum lead length is 30m.  You are not allowed to join extension leads together.
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Bushman on February 10, 2011, 01:53:42 PM
I carry a 20 metre lead (15amp )  though it is a pain when you only need 3metre
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Yoda42 on February 10, 2011, 04:50:16 PM
Thanks for the info  :cheers:
looks like safest bet is a 30m 15 amp, that way we have the best chance of having the right length( and complying to AS) and just tuck what is not needed under the CT out of the way

Cheers Yoda
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Beachman on February 11, 2011, 12:49:11 PM
Another question with power leads in Caravan Park, do they have to be 15amp or can I use my normal 30m household extension lead (does 10amp sound correct)

We are also doing our first trip to a Caravan Park later this year and getting a powered site to run 2 x 40L Engel fridges and maybe a jug to boil water in the mornings, so not like we are pulling lots of power??
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Maîneÿ . . . on February 11, 2011, 01:28:25 PM

Another question with power leads in Caravan Park, do they have to be 15amp or can I use my normal 30m household extension lead



The 'normal' 10 Amp extension cable is the recommended cable in caravan parks, 15 Amp plugs are different so often won't fit anyway ;D
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Nutto on February 11, 2011, 01:42:04 PM

The 'normal' 10 Amp extension cable is the recommended cable in caravan parks, 15 Amp plugs are different so often won't fit anyway ;D

Sounds ass-about to me?  Caravans have to have 15amp plugs/leads, so van parks cater to this. 10amp plug will still go into a 15amp, but not vice-versa  (15amp plug has a larger earth pin).
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Symon on February 11, 2011, 01:53:35 PM
Nutto is correct, a 10A plug will go into a 15A socket outlet, but a 15A plug will not go into a 10A socket outlet.

So yes, you can use a 10A lead in a caravan park.
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Humbolt on February 11, 2011, 02:23:07 PM
I have a hunch that's what Mainey was trying to say, just to be on the safe side.
I have been to parks and if i had taken a 15A lead, there would have been no power for me :)
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Maîneÿ . . . on February 11, 2011, 02:36:56 PM
I have a hunch that's what Mainey was trying to say, just to be on the safe side.
I have been to parks and if i had taken a 15A lead, there would have been no power for me :)

Humbolt,   Yes, Thank you

How many people would have 15 Amp "extension" leads anyway, as they can only be used in 15 Amp female plugs and I'm sure there are none in most homes  ;D

Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Bushman on February 11, 2011, 03:42:13 PM
You really only need the 15amp lead if you are running   any type of  caravan/jayco style campers as they all have 15amp inlets think some softfloors may have 15amp inlet if they are wired for 240v  if your just powered camping with tent/soft floor etc style campers you'll be right with 10amp lead to run lights fridge etc., but yes you'll be pluging to 15amp outlets
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: D4D on February 11, 2011, 04:20:16 PM
I know it fits but is a 10A plug in a 15A socket legal?
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Gunna Do on February 11, 2011, 04:30:09 PM
I know it fits but is a 10A plug in a 15A socket legal?

Yes.
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Maîneÿ . . . on February 11, 2011, 04:35:26 PM

Go into any caravan park and see how many 15 Amp extension leads are in use, I would suggest it's a very low %

Question: how many guys here use a 15 Amp extension lead in caravan parks ???
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: D4D on February 11, 2011, 04:49:08 PM
Question: how many guys here use a 15 Amp extension lead in caravan parks ???

Yes
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Beachman on February 11, 2011, 04:50:06 PM
Thanks everyone and appreciate your quick response. I’m glad my normal home lead will fit as didn’t feel like having to buy a new lead.
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Gunna Do on February 11, 2011, 04:50:45 PM
Question: how many guys here use a 15 Amp extension lead in caravan parks ???

On the rare occassions we go to caravan parks we use a 15 amp extension lead, or a doctored up 15 amp lead with a 10am male plug on it.

I know it's not legal, I know it can cause problems, I'm aware of the risks, and am happy to keep using it.  Safety police back in the corner.
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Symon on February 11, 2011, 05:05:34 PM
I know it fits but is a 10A plug in a 15A socket legal?

Absolutely, they are designed to do exactly that.  A 10A plug will go into a 10A, 15A, 20A or 32A socket outlet.  A 15A will go into a 15A, 20A or 32A one, and a 20A will go into a 20A or 32A one, and funnily enough a 32A one will only go into a 32A socket outlet.  Pretty much foolproof (unless of course people make their own leads, but I won't go into that)  ;D ;D

Go into any caravan park and see how many 15 Amp extension leads are in use, I would suggest it's a very low %

Question: how many guys here use a 15 Amp extension lead in caravan parks ???

PLENTY.  I don't go into caravan parks that often, but just about every caravan I've seen uses a 15A lead.

And I have a 15A outlet (4 in fact) in my house, so using a 15A lead is no problem for me.  My camper has hard wired 240V systems, and is fitted with a 15A inlet, so I use a 15A lead.
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Manjimike on February 11, 2011, 06:07:16 PM

Question: how many guys here use a 15 Amp extension lead in caravan parks ???

I do
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Manjimike on February 11, 2011, 06:12:46 PM
Absolutely, they are designed to do exactly that.  A 10A plug will go into a 10A, 15A, 20A or 32A socket outlet.  A 15A will go into a 15A, 20A or 32A one, and a 20A will go into a 20A or 32A one, and funnily enough a 32A one will only go into a 32A socket outlet.  Pretty much foolproof (unless of course people make their own leads, but I won't go into that)  ;D ;D
I know the earth pin on a 15A plug is larger, and all three pins on a 20A are the large variety, but how is a 32A plug configured just for interest sake?

 :cheers:
Mike
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Symon on February 11, 2011, 06:18:22 PM
They are the same size as a 20A plug, but the earth pin is bent in an "L" shape.  Not very common, in fact I haven't seen one in years.  What is more common is the 32A round style, where all the pins are round.  From memory (could be wrong) that these plugs will go into 40A and 50A plugs.  I don't think they make anything larger than 50A for single phase.
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Manjimike on February 11, 2011, 06:21:10 PM
Thanks everyone and appreciate your quick response. I’m glad my normal home lead will fit as didn’t feel like having to buy a new lead.

Take care as some cords with 10A plugs/sockets are only really rated to 7A (normally the really skinny ones}

 :cheers:
Mike
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Manjimike on February 11, 2011, 06:24:17 PM
They are the same size as a 20A plug, but the earth pin is bent in an "L" shape.  Not very common, in fact I haven't seen one in years.  What is more common is the 32A round style, where all the pins are round.  From memory (could be wrong) that these plugs will go into 40A and 50A plugs.  I don't think they make anything larger than 50A for single phase.
Thanks Symon,
I have a 20 A extension lead for my welder but have never seen the 32A variety

 :cheers:
Mike
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: outback jack on February 11, 2011, 08:22:23 PM
for years i've carried around a 15amp power lead, made up an adaptor to suit when a 15a power is not available in a c/park, and when i think about it i cant remember any c/park that does not have 15a

i'm not a sparky but cant see any reason why you cant "shave" the earth plug to suit when necessary


(http://i1181.photobucket.com/albums/x429/jackbparsons/IMG_0157.jpg)
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: staghornflat on February 11, 2011, 09:31:38 PM
Go into any caravan park and see how many 15 Amp extension leads are in use, I would suggest it's a very low %

Question: how many guys here use a 15 Amp extension lead in caravan parks ???

All the leads in our trailer are 15Amp
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Humbolt on February 11, 2011, 09:43:49 PM
All my leads have 10A plugs and are 1.5mm H/D flex. So in essence, 15A cable with 10A plugs, home made of course  ;D
Disclaimer: i'm a sparky!!
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: oldtrack123 on February 11, 2011, 10:07:37 PM
All my leads have 10A plugs and are 1.5mm H/D flex. So in essence, 15A cable with 10A plugs, home made of course  ;D
Disclaimer: i'm a sparky!!


 Hi
With 10amp PLUGS & SOCKETS I HOPE  ???

Peter
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Humbolt on February 11, 2011, 10:09:33 PM
Oh of course, otherwise it would be illegal!!
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: oldtrack123 on February 11, 2011, 10:15:06 PM


 Hi Outbackjack
 Re:"i'm not a sparky but cant see any reason why you cant "shave" the earth plug to suit when necessary""

 That is obvious ,or you would not have made that suggestion  :police: ???

 Peter
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Symon on February 12, 2011, 05:25:24 AM
i'm not a sparky but cant see any reason why you cant "shave" the earth plug to suit when necessary


You shouldn't do that because you are bypassing a protection feature.  The following is quoted from here - http://myswag.org/forum/index.php?topic=8138.msg125983#msg125983


It is true that there is very little difference between a 10A and 15A plug (apart from the obvious bigger earth pin), but there is differences in the socket.  A 15A socket has wider wipers (can't remember the proper term, so that will have to do for now) that give a larger area of contact on the plug pins, so a 15A socket has a higher current rating than a 10A socket - no surprises there.

One thing you stated that is incorrect is - "Basically it is all about not overloading your circuit protection (circuit breakers and fuses)", that is totally wrong.  Circuit breakers and fuses protect the cable, the entire cable, and nothing but the cable - they don't care about plugs and outlets.  And they certainly aren't sized with the size of outlets in mind, so the circuit breakers and fuses don't protect the outlet.

The next thing is "so in theory if you drew 15A out of one 10A outlet there wouldn't be any melting down of your outlets etc," you may be surprised to know that the outlets are tested in accordance to AS 3112 to a value of - wait for it - 11A!!  To get certification in Australia they are only tested to 110% of their rating - so if you do indeed drag 15A out of a 10A outlet there is a fair chance that it will heat up, and possibly melt.  Ask any domestic sparky if they have seen any melted outlets - I bet they will say yes.  I have seen one melt because a toaster and a kettle were both plugged into one 10A outlet via a double adaptor (double adaptors are for a different rant on another day, but I strongly discourage their use).

OK, so where does the protection for the outlet come from?  The answer is in the design and certification of devices when they go on sale in Australia.  For something to be certified with a 10A plug then it must draw up to or less than 10A.  This is why you can have many 10A outlets on one circuit protected by a 25A circuit breaker.  The circuit breaker protects the cable, and the outlets are protected via the fact that to have a 10A plug, the device must use less than 10A.  If the device uses more than 10A, then it would be fitted with a 15A or 20A plug - so logically you need a 15A or 20A outlet.  Again you have the same scenario - the circuit breaker protects the cable, and the outlet is protected via the fact that the device will draw less than what the plug rating is.

Now, this protection is totally compromised if you use a 10/15A converter lead.  The reason why your appliance has a 15A plug is because it will draw more than 10A.  If you use a converter lead, and your load does indeed draw more than 10A, there is a fair chance you will melt the outlet, possibly start a fire, and your circuit breaker or fuse couldn't care less.

Generally there are many 10Amp outlets per 10A house circuit... but only 1x15Amp outlet per 15A circuit ( to prevent multiple high draw appliances being used on the one circuit protection device)


That isn't a requirement of the current standard, yes many electricians (including me) would put 15A outlets on their own circuit to prevent nuisance trips, but it isn't mandatory.

Have you noticed what size circuit breaker is protecting your 10Amp power points in you house, 16A or 20A, so in theory if you drew 15A out of one 10A outlet there wouldn't be any melting down of your outlets etc, but if the combined total amps was higher from multiple items working at the same time then the said circuit breaker/fuse would fail.


Like I said, 10A outlets are only tested to 11A, so draw more than that and you are in dangerous territory.

So if your van/camper were drawing to much on the house wiring, the fuse or circuit breaker should always be the place to 'blow/trip'. That is what it is there for.  If it does trip, don't run the toaster, kettle and sandwhich maker all at the same time.


Yes true, the protection will operate to protect the cable - but not the outlet!
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: BigJules on February 12, 2011, 06:17:07 AM
I've got two (one long, one not so long) 15A leads for use when in van parks, but I have also made an adaptor with a 15A socket and a 10A plug for when I need to be able to connect into a 10A circuit somewhere.
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Juggs on February 12, 2011, 07:16:38 AM
any van park ive been too they have said 15 amp leads and they are supposed to be tagged as well
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Audio Bloke on February 12, 2011, 03:44:48 PM
The silly thing is if the park has 15amp outlets with a 15amp breaker and you plug a 10amp lead in you can draw 15amps down a 10 amp cable Hummm
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: Symon on February 12, 2011, 04:05:35 PM
The silly thing is if the park has 15amp outlets with a 15amp breaker and you plug a 10amp lead in you can draw 15amps down a 10 amp cable Hummm

If the appliance is manufactured in accordance with Australian Standards then that isn't a problem - scroll up and read the blue text of my post.
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: oldtrack123 on February 12, 2011, 06:59:03 PM

Hi  Audiobloke

Adding a little more to Symon's posts.

If the appliance you are using is fitted with a 10amp plug[as supplied.]you cannot overload the 10amp outlet.
That Is the while basis of Symon's blue post
It is only when someone decides to change an appliance or lead from the approved plug that problems of overload can occurf.

Peter
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: youngpop on February 12, 2011, 07:06:20 PM
Just read all the threads on this subject, and advise if you buy a Cub CT, they come with 15amp sockets, therefore, you will have to do what I did and buy a 15/15 amp lead (not cheap) and cut off one end and replace it with a 10amp plug. We now carry 10/10 and 15/10 leads.
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: BigJules on February 12, 2011, 07:30:46 PM
You two, enough, five minutes on the time out chair.
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: oldtrack123 on February 12, 2011, 08:10:56 PM
Just read all the threads on this subject, and advise if you buy a Cub CT, they come with 15amp sockets, therefore, you will have to do what I did and buy a 15/15 amp lead (not cheap) and cut off one end and replace it with a 10amp plug. We now carry 10/10 and 15/10 leads.


Sorry young pop
 What you  SHOULD do is buy an APPROVED ADAPTER ,,under AUST standards[AMPFIBIAN]approved &,legal 
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: oldtrack123 on February 12, 2011, 08:23:10 PM
You two, enough, five minutes on the time out chair.

Hi Big Jules
Am I one of those you refer to??
If so I do not understand why ,all I have done is confirmed & agreed with Symons' posts.

The Ampfibian is the only  legal  way @ this time
Home modified 10amp plug to15amp sockets are not legal or approved

Peter
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: D4D on February 12, 2011, 08:24:35 PM
Hi Big Jules
Am I one of those you refer to??

Nah it was Outback Jack having another crack at me again
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: oldtrack123 on February 12, 2011, 08:27:57 PM

 HiBig Jules

Myapologies , sorry , :-*
Thanks,D4D for  explaining :cheers:
Title: Re: What size power lead?
Post by: BigJules on February 12, 2011, 08:48:10 PM
I should have been clearer; I was referring to D4D and OBJ.